Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37

Thread: US recognition of Jerusalem

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    966.3673
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    NRI's would be one
    Would be one for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    This then turns over oil & gas, gulf and Iran. And the delicate balancing act we have with Iran vs the gulf and Israel. What makes this argument weaker these days is we're top five customers for energy in the region.
    This I understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Domestic reasons have a bearing on foreign policy. Simple example is can't send troops abroad because there is lots of push back when body bags come home. Happens in many countries. Saudis in Yemen and Iran using Hazaras in Syria. Japan is the best example of refusing whole sale. No way to continue a war if US congress won't support it.
    How is this connected with the vote against US? AFAIK, India is the only country to have voted against the US most of the time, with the exception of maybe Cuba.

  2. #17
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Would be one for what?
    Domestic reasons. Those people work there and would like to stay there. This is a vote in favour of 'arab solidarity'

    NRI's (Not required Indians) are Indians too : )

    How is this connected with the vote against US? AFAIK, India is the only country to have voted against the US most of the time, with the exception of maybe Cuba.
    Am going on what someone told me. What domestic reasons wasn't specified. Have to figure it out like with most things we discuss here

    UK's voted against the US too, that's a bigger problem for both of them

    The usual three reasons are

    - principled position in line with the intl community that has been the case for long
    - diaspora
    - domestic sensitivities

    This govt didn't want to change from the past and keeps both pals & israel

    Given how this vote went down, we're not looking too bad

    There will be more chances to support Israel in the future. Israel gets bashed at the UNGA on a regular basis : )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 24 Dec 17, at 13:08.

  3. #18
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    966.3673
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Domestic reasons. Those people work there and would like to stay there. This is a vote in favour of 'arab solidarity'

    NRI's (Not required Indians) are Indians too : )
    Right. Jobs and oil. It's definitely a foreign policy prerogative, irrespective of what KTaneja says.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Am going on what someone told me. What domestic reasons wasn't specified. Have to figure it out like with most things we discuss here

    UK's voted against the US too, that's a bigger problem for both of them

    The usual three reasons are

    - principled position in line with the intl community that has been the case for long
    - diaspora
    - domestic sensitivities

    This govt didn't want to change from the past and keeps both pals & israel

    Given how this vote went down, we're not looking too bad

    There will be more chances to support Israel in the future. Israel gets bashed at the UNGA on a regular basis : )
    Had there been someone suave in the White House who had the balls to take this decision, would the voting pattern remained the same? It seems majority of US allies want Trump to understand foreign policy the hard way, and I'm not talking about inconsequential countries like Egypt or Pakistan.

  4. #19
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Had there been someone suave in the White House who had the balls to take this decision, would the voting pattern remained the same?
    Yes, it needed some one to bite the bullet on a topic that already had bipartisan support as far back as 1995. Some one to be politically incorrect.

    It seems majority of US allies want Trump to understand foreign policy the hard way, and I'm not talking about inconsequential countries like Egypt or Pakistan.
    Trump is giving them the finger. Everybody wants to tell him what to say, what to think and what to do. Can't do this or that bla bla.

    He is saying to the world what he practices at home. He is no politician

    This vote doesn't have an impact on the ground, its more to assuage wounded Arab pride and i think it goes some way in achieving that

    He hasn't said undivided jeurasalem but everybody wants to ignore that. he's said he would support the solution both sides were happy with

    The Israelis don't want a two state solution. Israel is too small to be partitioned and a partition alone offers no future guarantee of peace. This is something else that cannot be said but its what most Israelis think

    Given our own sordid experience with partition who can blame them.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Dec 17, at 20:53.

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    966.3673
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Yes, it needed some one to bite the bullet on a topic that already had bipartisan support as far back as 1995. Some one to be politically incorrect.
    Conflicts around the world that we are witnessing today is because of UK's actions post WWII. Be it in the middle-east or in South Asia. That is one country that while receding its global stature, has done immense damage to the polity of international relations. Trump is trying to change that, and that has few takers and even less admirers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Trump is giving them the finger. Everybody wants to tell him what to say, what to think and what to do. Can't do this or that bla bla.

    He is saying to the world what he practices at home. He is no politician

    This vote doesn't have an impact on the ground, its more to assuage wounded Arab pride and i think it goes some way in achieving that

    He hasn't said undivided jeurasalem but everybody wants to ignore that. he's said he would support the solution both sides were happy with

    The Israelis don't want a two state solution. Israel is too small to be partitioned and a partition alone offers no future guarantee of peace. This is something else that cannot be said but its what most Israelis think

    Given our own sordid experience with partition who can blame them.
    I support the Israeli position. There is only 1 Jewish country and numerous Muslim states.

    Partition was good, but it was not because the Muslims did not want to stay in a Hindu dominated country. It's true though that Jinnah and the abduls fell for that. That is what the Congress and Left would want us to believe. Here too the UK played a role.

  6. #21
    Banned Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    06 Nov 16
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Here too the UK played a role.
    Yes it allowed Bigotry to prevail, Politicians like to play god! So we gave British India partition caused a blood bath and then gave half of India/Pakistan a British passport so that we could have a Friday night curry after getting pissed at the pub.

  7. #22
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    966.3673
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Yes it allowed Bigotry to prevail, Politicians like to play god! So we gave British India partition caused a blood bath and then gave half of India/Pakistan a British passport so that we could have a Friday night curry after getting pissed at the pub.
    Your attitude reveals Churchill has turned inside his grave. For Churchill said - why Gandhi hadn't died yet, in response to a telegram from New Delhi about people perishing in the famine of 1943. Read some history before you argue next. And the handful of visas that Britain gave, in no way does that compensate for the 100s of billions of dollars looted from India by your leaders, who ACTUALLY came to trade.

    Books: Churchill's Shameful Role in the Bengal Famine - TIME

    Why did independent India and Pakistan retain British generals?

    And this is what I had in mind - 'Britain created Pakistan'
    Last edited by Oracle; 27 Dec 17, at 17:13.

  8. #23
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Trump is trying to change that, and that has few takers and even less admirers.
    We decided to stick to our default position because a year old Trump isn't long enough to take a gamble.

    We played it safe in other words. Probably the shortest reason to explain our position

    I support the Israeli position. There is only 1 Jewish country and numerous Muslim states.

    Partition was good, but it was not because the Muslims did not want to stay in a Hindu dominated country. It's true though that Jinnah and the abduls fell for that. That is what the Congress and Left would want us to believe. Here too the UK played a role.
    Brits wanted a military outpost to use in the upcoming cold war. Same with the gulf states, all artificial to serve just one purpose. One says no, there is another and so on. Just see how useful those states have been over time.

    We shouldn't have allowed partition. The idea of a state for muslims is a total farce. Am pretty sure Nehru and Gandhi tried their best. Maybe more force was required. Jinnah and his lot got to lord over a newly minted kingdom

    If you watched one of those debates you posted with Mehdi, Ram Madhav said there could be a day some time in the future where we reunite and his example was East & West Germany. Interesting idea. Why not.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Dec 17, at 17:34.

  9. #24
    Banned Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    06 Nov 16
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Your attitude reveals Churchill has turned inside his grave. For Churchill said - why Gandhi hadn't died yet, in response to a telegram from New Delhi about people perishing in the famine of 1943. Read some history before you argue next. And the handful of visas that Britain gave, in no way does that compensate for the 100s of billions of dollars looted from India by your leaders, who ACTUALLY came to trade.

    Books: Churchill's Shameful Role in the Bengal Famine - TIME

    Why did independent India and Pakistan retain British generals?

    And this is what I had in mind - 'Britain created Pakistan'
    There is no attitude as you put it in anything I said, just a bit of humour which went over your head. Maybe you should read what I said not what you think I said.

    This might be helpful

    followed by this

    As for Churchill, wasn't it him that ordered poison gas to be dropped on the Peshmerga in the 20's??...I'm not a big fan of a lot of his actions. Good wartime leader... period!

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    966.3673
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    There is no attitude as you put it in anything I said, just a bit of humour which went over your head. Maybe you should read what I said not what you think I said.

    This might be helpful

    followed by this

    As for Churchill, wasn't it him that ordered poison gas to be dropped on the Peshmerga in the 20's??...I'm not a big fan of a lot of his actions. Good wartime leader... period!
    Nothing went over my head. I ignored your racist jibe. You're not fooling anyone here with your pitiful and sick innuendos. So either back up your racist crap or shut up.

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    966.3673
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    We decided to stick to our default position because a year old Trump isn't long enough to take a gamble.

    We played it safe in other words. Probably the shortest reason to explain our position
    Aren't we doing that for decades? What's special this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Brits wanted a military outpost to use in the upcoming cold war. Same with the gulf states, all artificial to serve just one purpose. One says no, there is another and so on. Just see how useful those states have been over time.
    Yes. Directed a gentleman with a link that says so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    We shouldn't have allowed partition. The idea of a state for muslims is a total farce. Am pretty sure Nehru and Gandhi tried their best. Maybe more force was required. Jinnah and his lot got to lord over a newly minted kingdom

    If you watched one of those debates you posted with Mehdi, Ram Madhav said there could be a day some time in the future where we reunite and his example was East & West Germany. Interesting idea. Why not.
    In 1947, I would have shared your opinion.

  12. #27
    Banned Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    06 Nov 16
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Nothing went over my head. I ignored your racist jibe.
    Nothing I said was racist. I gave an opinion and I rounded off with a joke at my own expense.

    You're not fooling anyone here with your pitiful and sick innuendos.
    You put an s at the end of innuendo, thats plural.....please explain

    So either back up your racist crap or shut up
    I don't take orders from drama queens

  13. #28
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Aren't we doing that for decades? What's special this time?
    Nothing


    Yes. Directed a gentleman with a link that says so.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shadow-Grea.../dp/8172238746


    In 1947, I would have shared your opinion.
    Can't say you're secular and also support partition which is its antithesis

    There is no time dimension

  14. #29
    Banned Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    06 Nov 16
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    100s of billions of dollars looted from India by your leaders
    Which didn't benefit the vast majority of British people at all. In actual fact the working class have only truly benefited from the state since India gained independence. With the construction of the NHS etc.....Which I might add saved my life 3 years ago when I underwent heart surgery. A procedure carried out by an Indian Surgeon(Dr Sastri) to whom I have nothing but thanks!

  15. #30
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I support the Israeli position. There is only 1 Jewish country and numerous Muslim states.
    The next part is can't have one state and call it a jewish state.

    Has to be secular and the Israeli right has to come to terms with that

    The Americans don't define their state as Christian, the Nepalis don't call it Hindu

    Synagogue and state have to be separate
    Last edited by Double Edge; 28 Dec 17, at 11:56.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 4 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. An Undivided Jerusalem
    By Merlin in forum International Politics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08 Mar 09,, 11:11
  2. Target Recognition
    By Buggerit in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12 Nov 08,, 04:05
  3. U.N. again throws out Taiwan bid for recognition
    By xrough in forum International Politics
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 11 Nov 08,, 19:55
  4. Merkel urges Israel recognition
    By Ironduke in forum The Middle East and North Africa
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 25 Feb 07,, 16:04
  5. A scientists who refused from recognition
    By Garry in forum Science & Technology
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 26 Aug 06,, 17:12

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •