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Thread: Las Vegas Oct 2017 mass shooting

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    WaPo didn't sat they lie. They do use a different definition for school shooting. They include any time a weapon is discharged on school property whether or not school was in session. The number is wrong in regards to the 5 or more killed definition of mass shootings BUT Everytown doesn't hide their methodology.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.5677ab89a296



    other quotes fro the WaPo article



    and this
    Most of the youths killed were bangers killed by other bangers using guns already prohibeted to them by federal law over drugs also illegal under federal law. What exactyl is more law going to do? Broken windows policing was working, but Holder and Lynch put the kibash on that.

  2. #242
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    Maybe i am just a Liberal from Canada, brainwashed by the latte-sipping Leftist media... but i just cannot get why it is OK for people with questionable background (aka crazy moth***ckers) to be able to purchase firearms like candies.

    Thoughts and preyers are good, but perhaps best to invest in tracking/stopping these crazies ... than building a wall with Mexico.
    That is just me looking in as an outsider.

  3. #243
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Teachers who volunteer would be provided law enforcement level fire arms training, carry a pistol with live rounds on person and would be reserve officers when there is a legit threat to life and health on campus with a primary duty to defend the space they occupy when the event happens.
    That is not the recommendaton of Republican Legislators who are also recommending guns in the hands of teachers. Even Citanon, on this board, thinks that armed teachers should be armed with long guns. Incidentally, how would you feel going up with a pistol against an active shooter armed with an AR-15 or an AK?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  4. #244
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Guess its a good thing the constitution doesn't care if you see or not. By far the biggest killer of kids under 18 is abortion. Guns don't even break the top 10 for causes of mortality in the US.
    Abortion = kids murder is your opinion. No more, no less. Many don't believe it and the laws certainly do not support it.

    Kids Murder = Kids Murder. this is something that everyone believes and is supported by law.

    However, if indeed abortion is so painful to you guys then it points to the depravity of Republicans/ conservatives that they try to push women down the path of abortions by rejecing education and contraception.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxes View Post
    Maybe i am just a Liberal from Canada, brainwashed by the latte-sipping Leftist media... but i just cannot get why it is OK for people with questionable background (aka crazy moth***ckers) to be able to purchase firearms like candies.

    Thoughts and preyers are good, but perhaps best to invest in tracking/stopping these crazies ... than building a wall with Mexico.
    That is just me looking in as an outsider.
    The same reason why crazies can vote. It's their right.

    Americans have gone through wars (Independence and their Civil War) for the right to vote. It's a cultural backlash now to try to deny them the tools that won them that right.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The same reason why crazies can vote. It's their right.

    Americans have gone through wars (Independence and their Civil War) for the right to vote. It's a cultural backlash now to try to deny them the tools that won them that right.
    America has one of the most inconsistent regimes for voting. Active voter suppression is a hobby with the Republicans. They know higher voter turnout will hurt them. That is why they try to suppress it. They even say so

    This is a letter by a Montana GOP official

    http://newstalkkgvo.com/files/2017/0...TER-TO-GOP.pdf

    Vote-by-mail is designed to increase participation rates of lower propensity voters. Democrats in Montana perform better than Republican
    candidates among lower propensity voters and Republican candidates do better among higher propensity voters.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  7. #247
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Most of the youths killed were bangers killed by other bangers using guns already prohibeted to them by federal law over drugs also illegal under federal law. What exactyl is more law going to do? Broken windows policing was working, but Holder and Lynch put the kibash on that.

    Stopped because there was no evidence that it worked.

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/a...dows-policing/

    And the crime rate continues to decline

    Quote Originally Posted by Zraver
    Teachers who volunteer would be provided law enforcement level fire arms training, carry a pistol with live rounds on person and would be reserve officers when there is a legit threat to life and health on campus with a primary duty to defend the space they occupy when the event happens.
    So your going to make them reserve officers? Who pays for their school? In the State of Florida you are required to complete a 770hr course to get your basic law enforcement certification. How many teachers have that much time on their hands?
    Its a 9 month course Mon-Thurs and Sats. 4 hours per session
    Human Scum. Proud Never Trumper

  8. #248
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    ah, the paranoid side of right-wing politics, at full bore.

    Right-Wing Media Uses Parkland Shooting as Conspiracy Fodder

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/b...onspiracy.html

    Right-Wing Media Uses Parkland Shooting as Conspiracy Fodder

    Feb. 20, 2018

    The teenagers of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., who a week ago lost 17 of their classmates and school staff members in a mass shooting, have emerged as passionate advocates for reform, speaking openly of their anger in the hope of forcing a reckoning on guns.

    But in certain right-wing corners of the web — and, increasingly, from more mainstream voices like Rush Limbaugh and a commentator on CNN — the students are being portrayed not as grief-ridden survivors but as pawns and conspiracists intent on exploiting a tragedy to undermine the nation’s laws.

    In these baseless accounts, which by Tuesday had spread rapidly on social media, the students are described as “crisis actors,” who travel to the sites of shootings to instigate fury against guns. Or they are called F.B.I. plants, defending the bureau for its failure to catch the shooter. They have been portrayed as puppets being coached and manipulated by the Democratic Party, gun control activists, the so-called antifa movement and the left-wing billionaire George Soros.

    The theories are far-fetched. But they are finding a broad and prominent audience online. On Tuesday, the president’s son Donald J. Trump Jr. liked a pair of tweets that accused David Hogg, a 17-year-old who is among the most outspoken of the Parkland students, of criticizing the Trump administration in an effort to protect his father, whom Mr. Hogg has described as a retired F.B.I. agent.

    Mr. Hogg, the high school’s student news director, has become a sensation among many liberals for his polished and compelling television interviews, in which he has called on lawmakers to enact tougher restrictions on guns. Just as quickly, Mr. Hogg attracted the disdain of right-wing provocateurs like The Gateway Pundit, a fringe website that gained prominence in 2016 for pushing conspiracies about voter fraud and Hillary Clinton.

    In written posts and YouTube videos — one of which had more than 100,000 views as of Tuesday night — Gateway Pundit has argued that Mr. Hogg had been coached on what to say during his interviews. The notion that Mr. Hogg is merely protecting his father dovetails with a broader right-wing trope, that liberal forces in the F.B.I. are trying to undermine President Trump and his pro-Second Amendment supporters.

    Others offered more sweeping condemnations. Alex Jones, the conspiracy theorist behind the site Infowars, suggested that the mass shooting was a “false flag” orchestrated by anti-gun groups. Mr. Limbaugh, on his radio program, said of the student activists on Monday: “Everything they’re doing is right out of the Democrat Party’s various playbooks. It has the same enemies: the N.R.A. and guns.”

    By Tuesday, that argument had migrated to CNN. In an on-air appearance, Jack Kingston, a former United States representative from Georgia and a regular CNN commentator, asked, “Do we really think — and I say this sincerely — do we really think 17-year-olds on their own are going to plan a nationwide rally?” (He was quickly rebuked by the anchor Alyson Camerota.)

    Conspiracies, wild and raw online, are often pasteurized on their way into the mainstream. A subtler version of the theory appeared Tuesday on the website of Bill O’Reilly, the ousted Fox News host. Mr. O’Reilly stopped short of saying the students had been planted by anti-Trump forces. But, he wrote: “The national press believes it is their job to destroy the Trump administration by any means necessary. So if the media has to use kids to do that, they’ll use kids.”

    Some of those who have been spreading the conspiracies are facing consequences.

    Benjamin Kelly, an aide to a Florida state representative, Shawn Harrison, emailed a Tampa Bay Times reporter on Tuesday accusing Mr. Hogg and a classmate, Emma Gonzalez, of being actors that travel to the sites of crises.

    Mr. Kelly was soon fired.

    “I made a mistake whereas I tried to inform a reporter of information relating to his story regarding a school shooting,” Mr. Kelly tweeted. “I meant no disrespect to the students or parents of Parkland.” His boss, Mr. Harrison, said on Twitter that he was “appalled” by Mr. Kelly’s remarks.

    But by Tuesday evening, a new conspiracy was dominating Gateway Pundit’s home page. “Soros-Linked Organizers of ‘Women’s March’ Selected Anti-Trump Kids to Be Face of Parkland Tragedy,” read the headline. Within an hour, it had been shared on Facebook more than 150 times.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  9. #249
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    Wtgf?!?!?
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  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Do you understand what select fire means?
    Yes.
    Next question?
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    America has one of the most inconsistent regimes for voting. Active voter suppression is a hobby with the Republicans. They know higher voter turnout will hurt them. That is why they try to suppress it. They even say so

    This is a letter by a Montana GOP official

    http://newstalkkgvo.com/files/2017/0...TER-TO-GOP.pdf
    So now you understand their mindset. They defend their gun rights with the same determination as the Democrats defend voting rights.

  12. #252
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Here is the video where former United States representative from Georgia and current piece of shit Jack Kingston alleges that 17-year-olds are not mature enough to organize rallies. His insensitivity is not shocking to me though, but his amazing lack of knowledge about firearms is.

    https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-pane...-come-on-jack/
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    So now you understand their mindset. They defend their gun rights with the same determination as the Democrats defend voting rights.
    What do you mean, "their gun rights"? I have been a gun owner ever since I was eligible to own one in this country. I am a citizen and a 2A supporter. What about my gun rights? How does a small minority get to appropriate and usurp the rights of a majority of Americans and gun owners who want stronger backgrounds checks and are not beholden to the firearms industry?

    The NRA and the politicians they fund have long run roughshod over the right of gun owners. They have championed legislation that promotes the industry over owners. Consider this, a third of Americans own guns, yet the NRA has only 4 million memebers, out of which 74% actualy favor more gun control such as background checks.

    Where is the opposition coming from then? It is coming from a small percentage of single-issue voters who do not care about anything except their hobby. Visit the gun forums and Youtube channels. There are folks who may be libertarian, even progressive from a social perspctive, yet they will not vote any Democrat because of gun issues.

    As for comparing gun rights and voting rights? I support stronger checks for voter identity. I do not believe in the honor system for voter identification. However, any such measure should be consistent, well communicated anf fair. Look at what the Election Commission o India did. They went across the country and ensured that every citizen above the age of 18 has a vote ID card. The right to anything assumes eligibility. That is what voter identity does not voting and background checks do for firearms.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  14. #254
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    For the very reason that once legislated, it is near impossible to repeal the law. More often than not, unjust laws are just left on the books and not enforced.

    As for voting rights, there was a movement to deny convicts the right to vote but should you be denied your right to vote simply because you didn't pay child support on time? What crimes should deny you the right to vote? How do you decide?

    Contrary to popular belief, automatic weapons are legally allowed to the US private citizen but the hurdles you have to jump through makes it not worth while; often requiring to invest $100,000+. The people who do it are mostly gunsmiths, logical since you have to consider that both police and the military need people to fix their automatic firearms.

    Both sides want it to be easier, not harder for people to practice their rights. They just choosed which rights to champion for all and which rights to deny others.

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    As to why semi-autos should be/must be allowed



    We've introduced pigs to this continent. We're the ones who will need to control their numbers and spread.

    And of course, in brown/polar bear country, when being charged by said bear, you don't stop shooting until the bear stops moving. Pray the bear stops moving before you're empty.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 21 Feb 18, at 20:59.

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