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German Federal Election 2017

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  • #91
    Merkel's inaugural speech:

    Angela Merkel stresses migrants, Islam in first Bundestag address of new government

    In the first major speech of her new term, German Chancellor Angela Merkel struck a conciliatory tone on immigration while offering an inclusive message on Islam. "Germany can do it," she said, and "we are all Germany."

    Wednesday was the first time Angela Merkel addressed the Bundestag after the unprecedentedly long and difficult process of forming a new government. It was thus a chance for the conservative Christian Democratic (CDU) chancellor to sell her plans for her fourth term in office and third as the leader of a grand coalition with the center-left Social Democrats (SPD).

    So it was significant that Merkel began her address with a discussion of her own political Achilles' heel: her welcoming stance toward the numerous migrants and refugees who arrived in Germany in 2015 and 2016. She called her famous "We can do this" statement from 2015 a "point of crystallization" in a process that "has divided and polarized our country."

    The chancellor noted that Germany had mastered this "unprecedented challenge" but added that they country's acceptance of more than 1 million migrants was a "humanitarian exception" that would not be repeated.

    Merkel said that Germany would do more to strengthen United Nations aid programs while at the same time pushing for beefed-up security on the European Union's external borders. She added that Germany would continue to take in political refugees, but that the government would also focus on deportations.

    "People who have no right to protection will have to leave our country, preferably voluntarily, but if necessary by state deportations," Merkel said. She repeated her government's pledge in the coalition agreement that the numbers of migrants per year would be capped at 200,000 or fewer.

    'Islam is part of Germany'

    Merkel recalled that immigrants from Turkey and Italy had played a crucial role in rebuilding post-war Germany and that their descendants were now members of mainstream German society. And she also extended a hand to Muslims living in Germany today.

    "It is beyond question that our country was historically formed by Christianity and Judaism," Merkel said. "But it's also the case that with 4.5 million Muslims living with us, their religion, Islam, has also become a part of Germany."

    Merkel admitted that not all Germans shared that view — a remark that drew a cry of "Seehofer!" from the parliamentary ranks. Germany's new conservative Interior Minister, Horst Seehofer, made headlines last week when he stated that Islam was not part of Germany. Merkel's statement implicitly rebuked his posturing.

    The chancellor then offered a list of new social benefits her government would be offering, from which "everyone will profit." At the same time she promised that her government would maintain balanced budgets in the next four years and that it was aiming for "full employment" across the country. German economic prosperity, she implied, would allow people of diverse religious and cultural backgrounds to co-exist in peace.

    EU takes a back seat

    Perhaps significantly, Merkel didn't discuss Germany's policy toward the European Union in any detail until the end of her speech, even though the EU is one of the central features of the coalition agreement.

    Merkel offered few specifics on potential reforms to the bloc, but she did stress the importance of European solidarity in a globalized world in which no European country would represent more than 1 percent of the global population in future.

    "The EU has proven to be a boon for us Germans," Merkel said. "That's why I'm convinced that the future of Europe resides in sticking together rather than acting as a number of small individual countries."

    Anyone hoping for an impassioned announcement of major new policies was disappointed. Wednesday's speech was classic Merkel: measured, sober, moderate, competent and middle-of-the-road, but hardly inspiring. At one point, when talking about Germany's future economic prospects, she even made a "scales" gesture with her left and right hands to illustrate her belief that policies must be balanced and based on compromise.

    Merkel specifically denied that this amounted to a policy of "carrying on" the status quo, saying that a world in transition did not allow for that kind of stasis. And she rounded off her speech by returning to her famous dictum which has also been used against her.

    "Let's surprise people with what we can do," the chancellor said. "I'm convinced Germany can do it. We are all Germany."

    But it remains to be seen whether Merkel's measured and occasionally wonkish arguments will carry any weight with those deeply unhappy with the way things are, in particular the supporters of the anti-migrant, populist Alternative for Germany (AfD) party.

    The apocalypse is nigh for the far right

    Speaking for the right-wing populist AfD as the largest opposition party, chairman Alexander Gauland said that "mass migration" to Germany was continuing unabated. He painted an apocalyptic picture of pensioners having to visit food banks and more and more Germans becoming homeless while refugees lived in alleged luxury.

    "Yes, chancellor, society is coming apart," Gauland said. "We're no longer pursuing German interests, but the interests of some imaginary Europe, however it's defined."

    Andrea Nahles, the parliamentary leader of junior coalition partners, the SPD, largely ignored Gauland's speech, stressing that the policies of the new government would benefit working-class Germans.

    Christian Lindner, the chairman of the center-right Free Democratic Party (FDP), resumed the criticism of the new government, saying that the grand coalition had failed to adequately address future challenges such as digitalization.

    Left Party co-parliamentary leader Dietmar Bartsch dismissed the coalition agreement as "carrying on" the status quo. And Green co-parliamentary leader Anton Hofreiter excoriated Seehofer, calling for him to be dismissed and accusing him of deepening social division in Germany.
    http://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-s...ent/a-43065114

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by kato View Post
      One of the AfD representatives received a fine of 1,000 Euro for photographing his filled-out voting card ("no") and thus violating the secrecy of the election.

      The same guy - a Czechoslovak asylum seeker - was under surveillance by domestic intelligence with court approval until being elected btw due to being an Identitarian.
      More on that:

      Far-right MP fined for tweeting anti-Merkel ballot

      A German far-right deputy was slapped with a 1,000-euro fine Wednesday for tweeting a picture of his secret ballot, in which he voted against a fourth term for Chancellor Angela Merkel.

      Bundestag speaker Wolfgang Schaeuble, Germany's former hardline finance minister, disqualified the ballot of Petr Bystron of the anti-immigration Alternative for Germany (AfD) party and fined him $1,240 after the MP posted the image on Twitter.

      "He knowingly violated the principle of the secrecy of the vote," Schaeuble told the chamber, calling it a "grave violation of the order and dignity of the Bundestag".

      Bystron had posted the photo apparently taken behind the curtain of the polling booth with the caption "Not my chancellor".

      Separately, an AfD member, Matthias Vogler, was removed from the viewing stands of the Bundestag for unfurling a banner reading "Merkel must go" during her swearing-in.

      Merkel, bruised by half a year of post-election coalition haggling, was narrowly confirmed by parliament Wednesday to her fourth and likely final term at the helm of Europe's biggest economy.
      https://www.expatica.com/de/news/cou...D_1754756.html

      Wikpedia article: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Bystron

      What's the story/background on the AfD guy who converted to Islam?
      Last edited by Ironduke; 22 Mar 18,, 23:12.
      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
        What's the story/background on the AfD guy who converted to Islam?
        Russian-German immigrant (with dual nationality and the conviction that "Putin is his president") who had converted to protestant christianity in 1989 when "visiting East Germany" and who felt estranged from it (as he claims) when he saw protestant priests supposedly taking part in a Christopher Street Day parade. Which didn't stop him for trying to run for the local church council in November last year - he was elected, but other members contested the election over his AfD membership not being compatible with christian values or something like that, and he was kicked off again. He then visited a mosque in Bashkiria (Russia) where he converted.

        Well, actually, he's sort of a religion shopper when you listen to him. Was originally atheist, baptized in 1989 as German protestant, joined the Lutheran Church of the USSR in 1990, then the New Apostolic Church of the Urals in 1992, and the Russian Orthodox Church in 1997. After he had emigrated in 1993, that is. Became an active member of his local protestant church in 2005. In conversations with hardline muslim circles he claims he first heard the voice of Allah in 2013.

        Comment


        • #94
          Seems like he has a weak sense of identity and poor self-esteem, he feels adrift and is seeking a feeling of belonging. I'm going to guess he's of Volga German descent, probably from a somewhat broken family deported by Stalin to Siberia or Central Asia. I'm going to hazard another guess and presume the BfV keeps an eye on him.
          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
            probably from a somewhat broken family deported by Stalin to Siberia or Central Asia.
            Ural mountains, born in Izhevsk and grew up in Sverdlovsk/Yekaterinburg. Claims he left due to the gang war there, following his parents and brother who had emigrated to Germany the year before.

            Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
            I'm going to hazard another guess and presume the BfV keeps an eye on him.
            Far too low key for the Verfassungsschutz, there's probably half a million people they'd need to watch before they get down to that kind of level.


            In other news, 27 of the AfD Bundestag faction's employees (out of 297 overall) have been exposed as neonazis - former members of the NPD (under VS surveillance), of the Patriotic German Youth (outlawed since 2009, under VS surveillance), Identitarians (also under VS surveillance). One of those 27 has been banned from entering the premise by the Parliamentary Police* as a security risk.

            The AfD technically has a "incompatibility list" of organization whose current or former members may not become AfD members which also goes for employment, but this is merely a guideline and largely ignored. Former AfD human resources employees have publicized that it's hard for the party to recruit personnel with most applications coming from the far right scene and for higher-level jobs often limited to e.g. the members of far-right fraternities (in particular "Gothia", a hard-right fraternity from Berlin who previously managed to slip personnel into posts through the CDU; all the way up to state secretary level in Berlin state - which became somewhat famous as he was kicked out for the connection after a few months).

            * the Bundestag has its own independent police force, headed by the Bundestag President and not subordinated to any outside force or power.
            Last edited by kato; 23 Mar 18,, 06:40.

            Comment


            • #96
              As the first major round of bills the Bundeswehr missions - which in January were only extended for 3 months under the commissionary government - were extended.

              Anti-ISIS-Coalition - 7 months / 800 soldiers / Iraq, IS airspace* and allied neighboring countries / 69.5 million Euro - changes: 550 soldiers less, aircraft carrier escort mission removed, combines previous mandates for Syria recce flights and Peshmerga training - supported by government only.
              Sea Guardian - 12 months / 650 soldiers / Mediterranean / 6.3 million Euro - no changes - supported by government and FDP.
              Resolute Support - 12 months / 1300 soldiers / Afghanistan / 315.3 million Euro - changes: 320 soldiers additional, return to Kunduz - supported by government, FDP and 25% of Greens.
              UNMISS - 12 months / 50 soldiers / South Sudan / 1.1 million Euro - no changes - supported by government, FDP, Greens and AfD
              UNAMID - 12 months / 50 soldiers / Sudan / 0.4 million Euro - no changes - supported by government, FDP, Greens and AfD

              Costs in the above are given for "expenditure due to mission", i.e. costs incurred in excess of what the soldiers and equipment would cost at home anyway. Only Resolute Support and the Anti-ISIS-Coalition exceed the individual deployment top-up pay for the deployed soldiers (between about 60 and 110 Euro per day depending on mission), i.e. incur significant costs for transport, mission equipment, ammunition etc. About 550 Euro per day per soldier for that in Afghanistan and 300 Euro per day per soldier for that in Iraq.

              The Iraq mandate is only for 7 months since there's a major change of operational area (from Kurdistan to Iraq) and it's for now treated as a fact-finding mission that may require a differently arranged mandate by the end of the year.

              Ongoing mandates:
              EUTM Mali - Mali / 1000 soldiers - until end of May 2018
              EUNAVFOR Atalanta - Horn of Africa / 600 soldiers - until end of May 2018
              EUNAVFOR Med - South Mediterranean / 950 soldiers - until end of June 2018
              UNIFIL - East Mediterranean / 300 soldiers - until end of June 2018
              KFOR - Kosovo / 800 soldiers - until end of June 2018
              MINURSO - Western Sahara / 20 soldiers - unlimited

              Three current deployed missions are not mandated by the Bundestag but are treated as equivalent by the Bundeswehr (i.e. soldiers get deployment pay):
              NATO eFP - Lithuania / ~450 soldiers - on NATO territory
              NATO SNMG2 - support for FRONTEX in the Aegaeis / ~200 soldiers - on NATO territory
              UNSMIL - military advisor to the UN mission in Libya and Tunisia / one major general - claimed not to involve armed military action

              From one further similar unmandated mission - UNAMA in Afghanistan, previously 13 officers - the Bundeswehr withdrew in November.

              * literally: "airspace above the operations area of the terrorist organization IS in Syria"
              Last edited by kato; 23 Mar 18,, 23:53.

              Comment


              • #97
                Heiko Maas embarks on a tricky trip to Israel

                Pilgrims from all over the world head for the Holy Land to celebrate Easter. This year they will be joined by German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas. His two-day visit to Israel and the Palestinian territories begins on Sunday, at the start of Holy Week. After Paris, Warsaw and Rome, Jerusalem is the fourth stop on his first foreign tour as Germany's chief diplomat.

                Maas will visit the Holocaust memorial site Yad Vashem. His agenda also includes talks with Israeli President Reuven Rivlin and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as well as with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.In his inaugural speech as foreign minister, Maas indicated that good and friendly relations with Israel were important to him. He will, however, need to employ considerable diplomatic skill to overcome the frostiness of recent months.

                There were several diplomatic spats last year, indicating the degree of frustration that has accumulated in the relationship between Israel and Germany. In May 2017, Chancellor Angela Merkel canceled pending German-Israeli government consultations. The official reason was scheduling problems. However, just one month earlier, Netanyahu had canceled a meeting with Germany's then-Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel, because Gabriel had spoken to organizations that were critical of the Israeli government.

                Now Maas is trying to pour oil on troubled waters. A detailed look at the areas of conflict shows just how much work he has in store.

                Conflict 1: Israel's settlement policy

                The main stumbling block is Israel's settlement policy. Even though the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians has effectively ground to a halt, German diplomacy is still insisting that they must not throw away the chance for a peaceful two-state solution. Meanwhile, Netanyahu's current hardline coalition's policies are creating facts on the ground. Settlement-building in the occupied Palestinian territories continues apace. Every new building reduces the space a Palestinian state would need to co-exist with Israel and still be viable. The German government regards Israel's actions as wrong and in contravention of international law — and it has publicly said so on numerous occasions. Tensions were heightened last year by the EU ruling that Israeli products coming from the occupied Palestinian territories must be labeled accordingly. It's unclear how Maas might be able to address this.

                Conflict 2: The Jerusalem question

                Bilateral relations have not been eased by US President Donald Trump'shighly controversial decision to move the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Germany rejects the unilateral recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel: It urges that the status of the Holy City should first be clarified in the context of a multilateral peace agreement. Before Trump's decision, the German government warned of a global increase in anti-Semitism and hostility towards Israel. However, Netanyahu cannot praise Trump enough for taking what he calls a brave step. There is also a need for discussion of what sort of chance a two-state solution still has in the current climate of confrontation.

                Conflict 3: UN Security Council seats

                No less contentious is the fact that Germany has put itself forward as a candidate for one of the 10 non-permanent seats on the United Nations Security Council. Along with the five permanent members – the United States, Russia, China, France and Britain – the UN's highest council is made up of 10 other members who are elected at regular intervals. These non-permanent members then sit on the Council for two years. The tricky thing is that Germany's current candidacy pits it directly against Israel. Both countries have applied for the same position as a non-permanent member of the UN's highest council for the year 2019/2020. The decision will be made in a run-off election in June. Many in Israel are demanding Germany step aside for its "partner," arguing that Germany was on the Security Council in 2011/2012, while Israel has never been on it in the 70 years since the state was founded. In his inaugural speech, Maas stressed the importance of Germany's candidacy. A crucial vote between Germany, Israel and Belgium, which has also put itself forward, is almost inevitable.

                Conflict 4: Anti-Semitism in Germany

                Many Jews are also concerned about the increase in overt anti-Semitism that has been observed of late in German society. The director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, Rabbi Meyer May, made an urgent address to the German public. In an interview with the newspaper Die Welt, he spoke of an increase in hatred of Jews in Germany, triggered by "the influx of Muslim refugees." He also described this influx as "a cancer." After Trump's decision on Jerusalem, Germans were shocked to see Israeli flags being burned at Arab-led protests in Berlin. As Germany's acting justice minister, Maas strongly condemned this anti-Semitism. "Anyone who attacks Jewish life must be prosecuted with the full force of the constitutional state," he said in January. When he arrives in Jerusalem as foreign minister, he will need to take a stance on this issue, too. Earlier this year, several members of the acting German government held out the prospect of appointing a special commissioner to deal with anti-Semitism. Whether this will be enough for Israel is debatable.
                http://www.dw.com/en/heiko-maas-emba...ael/a-43120602
                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                Comment


                • #98
                  First stop: Always Paris. Never anywhere else. Always with the chancellor. And preferably within hours of being sworn in.

                  The second trip is European politics and traditionally Warsaw, both as the second-largest neighbor and to show some empathy for the east. It is also often combined with a second stop that's meant as an order of importance and a cushioning of the Polish trip, telling them there's others as important as them - Westerwelle in 2009 did Den Haag, Fischer in 1998 London, Maas now Rome. Gabriel in 2017 quite markedly did not go to Warsaw; he had only Brussels planned for his second trip but cancelled due to illness.

                  The third trip is generally "exterior politics" and is invariably either Jerusalem (e.g. Maas and Steinmeier) or Washington (e.g. Gabriel and Westerwelle). It should be noted for Maas that the trip is explicitly announced as being "to Israel and the Palestinian Territories".

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    http://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkels-...sto/a-43286580

                    Angela Merkel's party critics to launch 'conservative manifesto'

                    A faction within Merkel's conservatives want her to change course from centrist policies. One of the goals of the movement is to remove Merkel as the head of the Union at a party conference in the autumn.

                    Disgruntled members from within German Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative bloc are calling for a reversal of her centrist policies and a return to conservative "core beliefs."

                    Traditionalists from the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and its Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU), will launch a "conservative manifesto" on Saturday to push for a change of course.

                    The group "WerteUnion," (Union of Values) wants the party to focus on family values, limit immigration, reintroduce compulsory military service and end dual nationality, among other things.

                    "We want the Union to reflect on its core values and to translate our beliefs based on Christianity into everyday political life. This includes above all questions on the right to life, the family and human dignity. Our endeavor also applies to the preservation of God's creation," reads the draft manifesto.

                    Among the principles to be protected is that of "father, mother and child" as the foundation of society, a reference to the legalization of gay marriage last year.

                    According to the group's website, WerteUnion seeks "to create a stronger network among conservative and economic liberal forces within the Union and contribute especially to the CDU reflecting on its core values."

                    The conservative faction calls for a more restrictive immigration policy based on skills shortages, an "end to a hasty clean energy transition" and an end to "state support of ideologically motivated gender research."
                    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                    Comment


                    • Ah, our local "liberal-conservative start" (that's what they originally called themselves).

                      Group founded by Alexander Mitsch, the deputy head of the local CDU in the suburban district around the city i live in about a year ago, currently has a few thousand members within the CDU according to their own statements - i.e. somewhere around 1% of all members of the CDU are in it. Their "federal assembly" today to pass that manifesto takes place in a 120 m² room that seats 100 people at most...

                      They have next to zero power within the CDU, mostly because they ostracized Spahn's group with their anti-homosexual policies. The highest CDU reps attending today are the deputy CDU faction leader of the NRW state parliament and the general secretary of the BaWü state CDU.

                      Mitsch previously founded "Start 2016" a while ago, which mostly agitated against a planned refugee home in his suburb and is linked to the "One Percent" network which basically connects such xenophobic groups throughout the country and is run by Identitarians. Mitsch, after founding the WerteUnion a year later, was asked about this connection and after evading ("oh, that's all one-sided") made sure he was no longer listed as part of "Start 2016".

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                        So basically they're knowingly going on a Potemkin tour.
                        Some members of the AfD faction appealed the Foreign Committee of the Bundestag now to have such tours financed as official "delegation visits". Besides financial support this would have given such tours an "official look" and would also require German embassies to support such operations. They were asking for financial support for additional trips to both Crimea and Syria.

                        The Foreign Committee rejected the appeal quoting that "on principle we do not finance trips to territories not recognized by Germany [i.e. Crimea] or to countries where a travel warning of the Foreign Department exists [i.e. Syria]".

                        After the above Syria trip in March a CDU member of the Parliamentary Control Committee (which oversees intelligence services) called on the BND to begin surveillance of AfD contacts with foreign countries, calling the party "Putin's fifth column".

                        Comment


                        • AfD's Gauland plays down Nazi era as a 'bird shit' in German history

                          The deputy leader of Germany's far-right AfD party has been accused of playing down the crimes of Nazi Germany. Diminishing the crimes of Nazi atrocities is extremely offensive in Germany.


                          Alexander Gauland, the deputy leader of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, described the Nazi era as a brief stain in Germany's otherwise grand history.

                          AfD politicians are often accused of harboring Nazi-like views, but this latest comment has sparked a particularly angry response.

                          What Gauland said

                          Addressing the youth division of the AfD at a conference in Seebach, Thuringia, Gauland said:

                          "Only those who acknowledge history have the strength to shape the future."
                          "Hitler and the Nazis are just bird shit in more than 1000 years of successful German history."
                          "Yes, we accept our responsibility for the 12 years … (but) we have a glorious history — and that, dear friends, lasted longer than the damn 12 years."

                          'Sinister vision'

                          CDU Secretary-General Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer told Die Welt: "50 million dead in World War II, the Holocaust, total war — and to call it all 'bird shit' is such a slap in the face of the victims and such a relativization of what happened in the name of Germany ... It is simply stunning that this is said by the leader of a supposedly civic party."

                          SPD Secretary General Lars Klingbeil told DW that Gauland had now dropped all facades. "This is a frightening trivialization of National Socialism. It is a disgrace that such people are sitting in the German Bundestag."

                          Marco Buschmann, parliamentary manager of the FDP parliamentary group in the Bundestag, told the Funke Media Group: "Any politician who deliberately tries to minimize the Nazi dictatorship and the Holocaust gives an indication of how sinister the visions he has for Germany are."

                          The Greens' Katrin Göring-Eckardt called Gauland's comments a slap in the face to Holocaust survivors and their descendants and said they highlight the need to push back against a hate-filled minority.

                          AfD faction spokesman Christian Lüth responded on Twitter: "Bird shit is what I think of the Nazi era," if you take into account the 1000-year-history of Germany.

                          Monument of shame: AfD politicians have argued in the past that Germany is hobbled by its memory of the Holocaust. Björn Höcke, the party's Thuringia head, in January 2017 called for "nothing other than a 180-degree reversal on the politics of remembrance." He took particular issue with Berlin's vast memorial to murdered Jews, calling it a "monument of shame." Gauland was one of the main politicians to defend him against accusations of Nazism.

                          Who is Gauland? He is co-leader of the AfD, the main opposition party in Germany's Bundestag. The 77-year-old has repeatedly railed against Islam and argued that Germany should be proud of its WWI and WWII veterans. He has also been criticized for failing to reign in the extreme fringes of the party.

                          aw/rc (dpa, AFP)
                          http://www.dw.com/en/afds-gauland-pl...ory/a-44055213

                          It should be noted that Gauland has accusations of "relativization of the Holocaust" or similar hate speech (those covered under Art. 130 German Criminal Code) filed against him relatively regularly, so the above isn't really anything special.

                          The last such case against him personally was dropped two weeks ago, for repeatedly stating that he hopes that the former Integration Commissioner of the Government - and a deputy head of the SPD - (a Turkish-German) "could be disposed of in Anatolia" (using the German word for disposing of trash there). About 20 people, including federal judges, filed charges against him for that; it was dropped as a "legal expression of free speech".

                          The last case in which he is co-accused - along with other AfD politicians - occured in April, in which a information request of the AfD faction in the Bundestag to the government asked how many disabled person currently reside in Germany, what nationality these have, what role marriages between immigrants play in that regard, also explicitly mentioning incest (insinuating that disabilities would predominantly be caused by incest, and of course everyone knows that those arabs all marry their cousins*) and whether the causes of disabilities have statistically changed between 2012 and now (insinuating a rise through increased immigration).
                          The government answer to that request basically told them where to find that information with the Federal Statistics Agency, except for the marital status of parents of children with disabilities - since that is not being statistically covered due to insignificance. The charge likely won't go anywhere since the request is worded to copy together multiple unrelated quotes from other sources and actually marks these as quotes. Which the government answer also points out at least has faulty information disagreeing with Federal Statistics.

                          * which is not illegal under German law btw.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by kato View Post
                            Ah, our local "liberal-conservative start" (that's what they originally called themselves).

                            Group founded by Alexander Mitsch, the deputy head of the local CDU in the suburban district around the city i live in about a year ago, currently has a few thousand members within the CDU according to their own statements - i.e. somewhere around 1% of all members of the CDU are in it. Their "federal assembly" today to pass that manifesto takes place in a 120 m² room that seats 100 people at most...

                            They have next to zero power within the CDU, mostly because they ostracized Spahn's group with their anti-homosexual policies. The highest CDU reps attending today are the deputy CDU faction leader of the NRW state parliament and the general secretary of the BaWü state CDU.

                            Mitsch previously founded "Start 2016" a while ago, which mostly agitated against a planned refugee home in his suburb and is linked to the "One Percent" network which basically connects such xenophobic groups throughout the country and is run by Identitarians. Mitsch, after founding the WerteUnion a year later, was asked about this connection and after evading ("oh, that's all one-sided") made sure he was no longer listed as part of "Start 2016".
                            In the US, we have factions within our political parties, known as congressional caucuses. Naturally, due to US elections solely being winner-takes-all, with no proportional representation, we have a two party system.

                            Some of these caucuses often have quite radical agendas. There are also groups that are unrepresented by any caucus that are even more radical, yet align themselves more or less with one party or the other.

                            Our congressional caucuses are somewhat like separate political parties working together under an umbrella, and in the unlikely event we were to shift to a proportional representation system, these caucuses would likely become independent parties in their own right.
                            Last edited by Ironduke; 03 Jun 18,, 10:34.
                            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                              In the US, we have factions within our political parties, known as congressional caucuses.
                              It's a bit different in Germany and depends heavily on the party.
                              • The SPD has three "Kreise" ("circles") as a direct counterpart to a congressional caucus - a conservative/modernist one, a keynesian/traditional one, and a youth wing that disagrees with both. Most representatives are part of one of these, the third one also takes members of the other two.
                              • The Left has six "Flügel" ("wings") that function the same - keynesian, radical democrat, reformist, reformist-socialist, marxist, anticapitalist; reformist and reformist-socialist are somewhat allied. These wings form cut-off political blocs by themselves. Unlike the SPD, belonging to multiple wings is not possible.
                              • The Greens have two "Strömungen" ("streams"), reformist/centrist and reformist-socialist/leftwing. The former effectively run the party and its politics nowadays. The latter is basically an amalgam of what was left over after smaller leftwing splinter groups left for The Left, and is barely noticable nowadays.
                              • The FDP has four "Kreise" - conservative-liberal*, traditional-liberal, reformist-liberal/left, reformist-liberal/centrist. Leadership generally belongs to the conservative-liberal Schaumburger Kreis since the 70s or so, the other groups tend to be a bit more "flighty" (and young).
                              • The CDU has a hodgepodge of "informal interest representations". These often carry themselves quite mysterious and secretive, to the extent that whether someone is a member is usually a "secret" - this goes as far as when a member of one of these groups died, the media pointed out the signatory list of his obituary as a likely list of members of his group (seriously, it's sorta as secretive as a Freemason lodge...). Often these hold political convictions not in line with the main party policy, and are more like alliances of like-minded people in power though, at most a few dozen people who agree not to run against each other in intra-party primaries and such. There's a single formal official group that's like a caucus, conceptually christian-ultraconservative, of around 40 current and former CDU reps. Unlike other parties none of these groups are acknowledged in any sense by the party. The party itself runs a limited number of issue-specific socalled "sociological groups", e.g. a pro-small-business group and a pro-unionist group that reps can and do join (those two for example hold like three quarters of CDU reps between them) and that can actually clash with each other on individual topics.

                              The AfD also has a number of such groups, possibly formal, but i better not delve into those.

                              A slight difference to the US concept of a congressional caucus - for those parties above that have comparable setups - is that the groups are relatively long-term associations, with many of the currently active groups founded 40-50 years ago. Many of the US groups seem to be a bit more single-issue- or single-purpose-focused too in comparison.

                              * liberal in each case used in the German sense of pro-capitalist "Classical Liberal", not in the US sense.
                              Last edited by kato; 03 Jun 18,, 18:30.

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                              • Originally posted by kato View Post
                                The AfD also has a number of such groups, possibly formal, but i better not delve into those.
                                One of those groups, the "Alternative Center" (that's their moderates) is now demanding that Gauland apologize in public for the above "bird shit" thing and preemptively apologized "to nazi regime victims and their families" themselves "in the name of the AfD".

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