View Poll Results: What is the best course of action in dealing with North Korea?

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  • Full scale preemptive military strike

    4 28.57%
  • Limited preemptive military strike

    0 0%
  • Appeasement in the form of recognition and aid

    1 7.14%
  • Strategic Patience - Neither negotiation nor military action

    9 64.29%
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Thread: The Korean Dilemma

  1. #886
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  2. #887
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    Calling out Beijing: US ‘gift’ to China shows unenforced North Korea sanctions

    Acting Pentagon chief Patrick Shanahan surprised Chinese counterpart Wei Fenghe with ‘beautiful’ present during meeting in Singapore.
    What looked like a coffee-table book was actually 32 pages of photos and satellite images of North Korean ships getting and delivering shipments of oil.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  3. #888
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    The Chinese answer is that they're smugglers. Within context, the Chinese are saying that there are leakages and there's no way to plug every leak. They're keeping North Korean factories dark but expecting them to stop every freighter that can barely carry enough fuel for a gas station is asking too much
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 15 Jun 19, at 16:43.

  4. #889
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    ^ That's how smuggling rings operate. Destroy one source, another one crops up instantly. It's just unbreakable. Take for example the 'Silk Route'. Closed by the feds, arrests made, but there are drugs still being sold on the dark web. Ofcourse the business continues. It's always a new name, a new man, a new tactic. As for the Chinese, I don't think they're stupid enough to do this in the middle of the ocean, under literally 100s of eyes in the sky.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  5. #890
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    On again, off again. This time Trump stepped over the line into NK


  6. #891
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Was it......... a red line?

  7. #892
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Just think - they're only about 100 feet or so from where the North Korean soldier who defected and got shot doing so several months ago crossed. Ironic.

    You know, I'd have paid all of somebody else's million dollars to stand there while the SK President and LRM were holding hands, with Quad Whoppers and McQuads in hand, shouting:

    Kim Jong-Un, komm ruber!
    Wir haben viele doppelbrot mit fleisch uber hier!
    Komm ruber!
    Es schmeckt dir gut!
    Komm ruber!


    14 months later... my scenario played out in reverse.

    Kim Jong-Un kam rüber nicht zu der RoK, lieber, Donald Trump kam rüber zu der DPRK.

    I wonder if LRM hooked Trump up with any of that world famous North Korean cuisine - double bread with meat.

    Last edited by Ironduke; 01 Jul 19, at 13:57.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  8. #893
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Was it......... a red line?
    I was thinking of Moon (he has been helpful) and one small step for man....

    Will the next meeting be in Washington ?



    This meet was not as spontaneous as it seemed.

    The Indian interest with a NK resolution is obvious. Proliferation.

    NK threatens missiles that can over fly the US and we don't want a thermonuke next door.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 02 Jul 19, at 03:27.

  9. #894
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    Kim Jong Un Ends Testing Moratorium And Threatens To Unveil New "Strategic Weapon"

    Kim Jong Un has decided to roll the clock back two years in his New Year's address that caps off the Central Committee's annual meeting. In it, he declared an end to the testing moratorium he placed on his nuclear and long-range ballistic missile programs during the period of detente with Washington D.C. and Seoul. He also warned that the world would see a new strategic weapon system from his country very soon. Whether this means within hours, days, weeks, or months remains unclear, but sooner is more likely than later if you take into account his regime's recent "Christmas gift" threat.

    The reasoning behind these changes is too slow of progress with negotiations with the United States and in response to the same hardline sanctions that sit over his regime that were in place two years ago. In his address, Kim noted that the U.S. would "suffer helplessly" if the status quo doesn't change and accused the Trump Administration of "gangster-like demands." This is all well-traveled ground when it comes to North Korean rhetoric vis-a-vis the United States, but such a tone had taken a hiatus during the period of diplomacy. That period has clearly been marching toward an end over the last nine months or so as negotiations hit dead ends and no sanction relief materialized.

    Of course, there are still no signs that North Korea has any intention of giving up its nuclear arsenal. Doing so, at least without unprecedented concessions and aid in exchange, is totally illogical, especially as it has been made clear that actually going to war over the standoff would be unthinkable due to its immense cost in life and treasure according to Trump himself.

    We will have to see exactly what Kim's new weapon is, but most signs point to a new or updated intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) design, one that leverages solid fuel for at least one stage of its propulsion stack. A "strategic engine test" occurred earlier in December that was likely a precursor to an actual flight test of such a weapon. Putting his recycled make-shift ballistic missile submarine in the water is another, but less likely possibility, among others.

    Even though the Kim regime is a master of deceit and double talk, Kim Jong Un has been remarkably clear about his testing intentions and goals, and his weapons capabilities since accelerating both his nuclear and ballistic missile program in early 2016. Since then, the country's technological know-how has evolved at an incredible rate. Over the last two years, although there haven't been tests of these weapons, the programs have continued at full steam. As such, 24 months in North Korean weapons development years is a long time. It would be foolish to underestimate just how impressive Kim's new strategic weapon may be.

    Above all else, one thing is clear—North Korea's New Years' resolution is to end the standoff's current status quo, one way or another.
    ________

    Yet another one of Trump's massive failures is on display. Shocking...totally shocking.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  10. #895
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    When it comes to a threesome playing poker of Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Trump guess who is out of his league?

  11. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    When it comes to a threesome playing poker of Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Trump guess who is out of his league?
    Trump would be out of his depth in a rain puddle

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    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  12. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    When it comes to a threesome playing poker of Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Trump guess who is out of his league?
    Why anyone would think KJU is a master strategist is beyond me. All he got is a pair of deuces. And no one is quivering with his threats. Not Seoul. Not Tokyo. Not Beijing. Not Taipei. And most certainly not Washington DC.

    As far as I can see. Both KJU and Trump got absolutely zero for all their efforts. But then again, there wasn't all that much effort. Nothing in. Nothing out. If anything, the military gap between North Korea and the US have gotten wider.

    KJU, for all his efforts, have not broken his isolation. Neither the Russians nor the Chinese are lining up to sell them cheap oil, let alone modern arms. The sanctions are still in place and not being broken by either the Russians nor the Chinese.

    So, just how the hell does that make KJU a master player over Trump when he's still starved of funds and food?
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 01 Jan 20, at 08:50.

  13. #898
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Yet another one of Trump's massive failures is on display. Shocking...totally shocking.
    You want to slam Trump for trying then you will also do so with every other president going back to Clinton.

    I credit Trump for having tried. He went further in adding a personal touch. TWICE (!)

    Analysts think this personal touch thing that leaders seem so enamoured with these days is worth exactly squat but I see it as another avenue. Plays well with the public. Anything that helps is worth it.

    The photo op with Trump had a ton of propaganda value for Kim. Now he has squandered it.

    We have a deadlock here. I suppose sanctions have not weakened Kim yet.

    Best of luck to the next US president who tries to work for peace in the region.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Jan 20, at 12:24.

  14. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Why anyone would think KJU is a master strategist is beyond me. All he got is a pair of deuces. And no one is quivering with his threats. Not Seoul. Not Tokyo. Not Beijing. Not Taipei. And most certainly not Washington DC.

    As far as I can see. Both KJU and Trump got absolutely zero for all their efforts. But then again, there wasn't all that much effort. Nothing in. Nothing out. If anything, the military gap between North Korea and the US have gotten wider.

    KJU, for all his efforts, have not broken his isolation. Neither the Russians nor the Chinese are lining up to sell them cheap oil, let alone modern arms. The sanctions are still in place and not being broken by either the Russians nor the Chinese.

    So, just how the hell does that make KJU a master player over Trump when he's still starved of funds and food?
    Sir,
    Kim got exactly what he needed and craved: Validation from the United States, from the President himself, no less. Trump sought him out. Trump came to him. Trump stepped foot on North Korean soil. Trump "fell in love" with Kim Jong Un. Neither his father nor grandfather was able to achieve any of that.

    If nothing else, Kim's domestic stock soared, even if only among the elite of the DPRK.

    Trump of course, despite his bragging about "knowing more than anybody", got worse than the status quo of the past decades, revealing to anyone who isn't drinking his Kool-Aid that he's not the legendary deal maker that he's built himself up to be.

    Trump has, yet again, been exposed as the emperor with no clothes, despite the fawning attention of his sycophantic followers and defenders, foreign and domestic.

    Because when all is said and done, you don't need to be a master strategist or holding anything more than a paid of deuces when you're dealing with Trump. Holding a jangling a set of keys over his head and telling him what smart and handsome boy he is will be sufficient.

    Or as Gary Cohn said^^: He's an idiot surrounded by clowns. A fat playboy dictator with a pair of deuces will more than suffice.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  15. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Sir,
    Kim got exactly what he needed and craved: Validation from the United States, from the President himself, no less. Trump sought him out. Trump came to him. Trump stepped foot on North Korean soil. Trump "fell in love" with Kim Jong Un. Neither his father nor grandfather was able to achieve any of that.

    If nothing else, Kim's domestic stock soared, even if only among the elite of the DPRK.
    Everyone keeps forgetting that there are TWO Chinese Group Armies sitting on the North Korean border. It is THAT PERSPECTIVE that MUST be taken in consideration when talking about KJU and Trump. KJU ain't going to do anything without Xi's approval and Xi ain't going to lift the sanctions.

    And to be frank, NO ONE CARES about KJU or North Korea. Sure he got his audience with the US but so what? When the famine hit North Korea, there was no relief from anyone and everyone, including Chinese Strongman Deng Xia Peng, was going to let the Kims fall. That's how much the Chinese cares about KJU.

    It ain't KJU playing Trump. It's Xi. KJU is just Xi's pawn.

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