View Poll Results: What is the best course of action in dealing with North Korea?

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  • Full scale preemptive military strike

    4 28.57%
  • Limited preemptive military strike

    0 0%
  • Appeasement in the form of recognition and aid

    1 7.14%
  • Strategic Patience - Neither negotiation nor military action

    9 64.29%
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Thread: The Korean Dilemma

  1. #826
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Peanuts for peanuts but some people want to believe its diamonds for peanuts : )
    A peanut is intrinsically worth more than a diamond though.

    Peanuts are nutritious and chock full of vitamins, minerals, and healthy fats. Diamonds are just rocks that people got scammed into buying because supposedly, he doesn't love you unless he gets you diamonds. The bigger the diamond, the more he loves you. Used to be one month's salary for an engagement ring, and now it's two. Soon, no doubt, it will be three months, or even six.

    Try selling a diamond back to the store you bought it from. They won't take it, or even give you an offer on it. You'll be lucky to get 20 cents on the dollar from a pawn shop for it.

    Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? - The Atlantic, Edward Jay Epstein, February 1982
    The Diamond Myth - The Atlantic, Stuart Reid, December 2006
    Last edited by Ironduke; 26 Jun 18, at 00:29.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  2. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    A peanut is intrinsically worth more than a diamond though.
    Yeah, I'm not going to replace my diamond tipped drill bits nor my diamond blades with peanuts anytime soon.

  3. #828
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Yeah, I'm not going to replace my diamond tipped drill bits nor my diamond blades with peanuts anytime soon.
    I was referring to gem diamonds. Industrial diamonds do have intrinsic value, as they have a functional use.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  4. #829
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    A peanut is intrinsically worth more than a diamond though.

    Peanuts are nutritious and chock full of vitamins, minerals, and healthy fats. Diamonds are just rocks that people got scammed into buying because supposedly, he doesn't love you unless he gets you diamonds. The bigger the diamond, the more he loves you. Used to be one month's salary for an engagement ring, and now it's two. Soon, no doubt, it will be three months, or even six.
    They're not rocks, they're minerals, Marie : ((

    Try selling a diamond back to the store you bought it from. They won't take it, or even give you an offer on it. You'll be lucky to get 20 cents on the dollar from a pawn shop for it.

    Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? - The Atlantic, Edward Jay Epstein, February 1982
    The Diamond Myth - The Atlantic, Stuart Reid, December 2006
    This is why gold rules in India : )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Jun 18, at 07:11.

  5. #830
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    Seems that the norks have no intention of 'denuclearising' but are trying to hide things better. Quelle surprise!

  6. #831
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Really ?

    Mike Pompeo sets off for North Korea nuclear talks, hopes denuclearisation process is underway in a year | AFP | Jul 05 2018

    the statement the leaders signed was short on detailed commitments and Pompeo has been tasked with negotiating a plan to achieve the "complete denuclearisation" of the Korean peninsula. This would involve Kim making a detailed declaration of the extent of his nuclear arsenal and enrichment programme, and agreeing on a timetable for it to be dismantled and placed under inspection.

    Washington hopes that the process can be underway within a year, but many expert observers and Trump critics warn that Kim's summit promise meant little and the process could take years. In the meantime, Pompeo and Trump have vowed to keep in the place the international economic sanctions that they believe forced the North to the negotiating table in the first place.
    In a year the title says, so how did you conclude so quickly ?

    His trip to NK is a sore point in India as he was scheduled to be in India on those days initially
    Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Jul 18, at 02:00.

  7. #832
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    "We had anticipated the US side would come with a constructive idea, thinking we would take something in return," the North Korean statement said.

    "But through the high-level talks, the trust between the DPRK and the United States is facing a dangerous situation where our resolve for denuclearisation, which has been firm and steadfast, may falter."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44751283

    Shocking! Can it be that the man child was mistaken?

  8. #833
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    May and can are ambigious

    Both are hard balling nobody has walked away yet

  9. #834
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    May and can are ambigious

    Both are hard balling nobody has walked away yet
    This might apply here some. I know someone who is a CFO of a tech firm that makes very expensive laser equipment for chip fabrication. We were talking about paying bills at net 30 days. He said that Americans and European firms pay that way. He also said that the Japanese pretty much honor their contracts. However, the Chinese, Taiwanese and Koreans do not honor their contracts. They always find reasons to delay paying and holding up their end of the bargain. In fact there was no shame in not paying at all. The shame was in paying too soon. Now his equipment was so technical and difficult to build that his firm were the only ones capable of servicing the lasers. In the end they would call about needing servicing and at that point he would tell them sure right after you pay us.

    I see agreements/contracts with the North Koreans in that light and with them being the worst of the bunch.

  10. #835
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    I doubt this WH cares about those nuances. First Trump says he will meet, then its off. This i understood to mean NK wasn't offering enough. Then it was on again and took place. So NK decided to offer more. Now the meet is over. If NK goes back, Pompeo will be there detailing what the consequences will be. This i what i interpret 'gangster like tactics' to mean. It's ironic to hear NK say that because they are gangsters so they must be getting squeezed good. Trump can walk away at any point and NK is back in the dog house again.

    Trump has shown he is his own man, he's given the beltway the finger and gone further than the last three presidents with NK. He doesn't care for their advice. Feeling spurned they are going to be filling the media with all of their doubts and thoughts. Had a earful before the meet, same is continuing now. Each day something will be said how its going to fall apart or whatever real soon now.

    Know what, let that happen first !
    Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Jul 18, at 01:36.

  11. #836
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Yep, those results just keep on coming...

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/12/polit...ins/index.html

  12. #837
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Pyongyang has asked the UN Command Armistice Commission to upgrade the talks to a higher level to include a US general, South Korea's foreign ministry said.

    The US later said that North Korea had offered to meet on 15 July.

    "We will be ready," US state department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44598078

  13. #838
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  14. #839
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-45067681 Well either Trump was fooled or those who believed that Trumpkin were fooled by his gimmick. Which?

  15. #840
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Donald Trump blames China for his decision to pull US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s North Korea trip

    US President Donald Trump has blamed China for his decision to pull Secretary of State Mike Pompeo out of a planned trip to North Korea, saying that Beijing is holding back denuclearisation with inaction.

    “I have asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo not to go to North Korea, at this time, because I feel we are not making sufficient progress with respect to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” Trump tweeted on Friday, barely two months after his June meeting with the North’s Kim Jong-un in Singapore.

    In further tweets, he added that he “[does] not believe” China is helping with the process of denuclearisation “because of our much tougher Trading stance”, and that Pompeo would head to North Korea “in the near future, most likely after our Trading relationship with China is resolved”.

    I have asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo not to go to North Korea, at this time, because I feel we are not making sufficient progress with respect to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula...

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 24, 2018

    ...Additionally, because of our much tougher Trading stance with China, I do not believe they are helping with the process of denuclearization as they once were (despite the UN Sanctions which are in place)...

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 24, 2018

    The US and China have been locked in a trade war for months, with each side ratcheting up tariffs on the other’s imports. China is the North’s leading trade partner, and is widely believed to hold the greatest sway over the North Korean government.

    But China watchers blamed Trump’s poor negotiating strategy – not China – for the stalled North Korea nuclear talks and the decision to put off Pompeo’s trip.

    Suzanne DiMaggio, a Korea expert at non-partisan think tank New America who conducts unofficial dialogue with North Korean officials on behalf of the US government, said on Twitter that “by overhyping the outcomes of his meeting with Kim Jong-un in Singapore, including declaring that North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat, Trump has given Pyongyang the advantage and undercut his own negotiators.”

    “Placing the blame on Beijing is not the way to dig out of this self-created hole,” DiMaggio said.

    .@SecPompeo announces Steve Biegun as the Special Representative for #NorthKorea, who will lead our efforts to achieve @POTUS Trump’s goal of the final, fully-verified denuclearization of North Korea, as agreed to by Chairman Kim Jong Un. pic.twitter.com/fZ9iCBMhpL

    — Department of State (@StateDept) August 23, 2018

    Meanwhile, she said, “North Koreans' separate tracks of dialogue with Seoul, Beijing and Moscow are moving ahead at a quick pace, leaving chances to revive the ‘maximum pressure’ campaign at close to zero.”

    DiMaggio was referring to the programme of crippling sanctions previously put in place to try to force Pyongyang to abandon its nuclear ambitions.

    Bruce Klingner, a North Korea expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation think tank in Washington, said, “It’s not fair to blame China for an obvious lack of progress in the nuclear talks.”

    “I disagree with those who think China is the one that stiffens North Korea’s spine,” Klingner said. “I blame the US’ poor negotiating and North Korea’s intransigence, not that China is either pushing or controlling or instigating North Korea to have a firm policy.”

    Bonnie Glaser, a director for the China Power Project at the bipartisan Centre for Security and International Studies, said, “If Trump is going to suspend talks with North Korea until trade problems with China are resolved, it will take a long time.”

    The decision to postpone Pompeo’s trip came a day after the secretary of state appointed Stephen Biegun, a senior executive with the Ford Motor Co, to be his special envoy for North Korea and said he and Biegun would visit next week.

    The State Department never confirmed details of Pompeo’s trip, but it had been expected that Pompeo would be in Pyongyang for at least several hours on Monday, according to several diplomatic sources familiar with the plan.

    White House officials did not immediately comment on what prompted Trump to call off Pompeo’s trip. The State Department had no immediate comment on the matter and referred questions to the White House.

    DiMaggio speculated that Trump’s goal in postponing the trip was to prevent another setback in the midst of his growing legal problems at home and their implications for the upcoming midterm election in November.

    “As Trump faces the worst week of his presidency, the last thing he wants to add to his mounting troubles is Pompeo coming home from North Korea empty-handed yet again,” DiMaggio said.

    “North Korea is supposed to be Trump's big foreign policy win.”

    Although he tweeted that Pompeo would not be visiting North Korea, Trump attempted to stoke his relationship with Kim. “I would like to send my warmest regards and respect to Chairman Kim,” he said. “I look forward to seeing him soon!”

    After more a year of escalating tensions defined by nuclear and missile tests, new sanctions and “fire and fury” rhetoric, Trump made history meeting Kim earlier this year.

    In the run-up to the summit both nations engaged in hard-nosed negotiations, with Trump publicly calling off the meeting in an effort to push Kim to agree to nuclear concessions.

    ...Secretary Pompeo looks forward to going to North Korea in the near future, most likely after our Trading relationship with China is resolved. In the meantime I would like to send my warmest regards and respect to Chairman Kim. I look forward to seeing him soon!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 24, 2018

    During the summit, the pair signed a vague joint statement in which the North agreed to denuclearise, but which left nearly all details undefined.

    “There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea,” Trump declared on Twitter after the meeting.

    “Before taking office people were assuming that we were going to War with North Korea. President Obama said that North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem,” he added. “No longer – sleep well tonight!”

    Trump had kept up the positive tone as recently as Tuesday at a campaign-style rally in West Virginia maintaining that “we’re doing well with North Korea.”

    “There’s been no missile launches. There’s been no rocket launches,” he added.

    At the same rally, Trump also seemed to take a different tone on China, saying he had withheld some criticism of China because “I wanted them to help us with North Korea and they have.”
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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