View Poll Results: What is the best course of action in dealing with North Korea?

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  • Full scale preemptive military strike

    4 28.57%
  • Limited preemptive military strike

    0 0%
  • Appeasement in the form of recognition and aid

    1 7.14%
  • Strategic Patience - Neither negotiation nor military action

    9 64.29%
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Thread: The Korean Dilemma

  1. #751
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    A narcissistic lying traitor of a republic meets a despotic murderer of family despotate in a historic world first reality TV show stunt. The sign a piece of worthless paper (since neither can be trusted to keep their word anyway) and say "what a great show this is". *Audience applauds* credits...

    Next on Trumpkin TV a rerun of the world famous "All the Deals I never did with Moscow".
    Dear President Obama & other participants

    You have single handedly, throughly and utterly betrayed us to our mortal enemy with this Iran deal

    xxxxx
    Israel & KSA

    Bias is dead easy to spot, its the inability to find even one positive thing about an administration
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Jun 18, at 22:05.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Trump's got a de facto freeze on missile testing and a shuttering of a missile site, from what it sounds like. Denuclearization is a pipe-dream, the only thing you can hope for now is stopping (or rather slowing) NK's drive towards warheads and especially missile testing.

    I agree it's probably a give-away without much, but I'm still waiting for more details.

    Also the NK strategy is going to nuclearize as much as necessary to be considered a threat by the US, and the "threat" is measured by the willingness of the US to make some sort of concession. A hypothetical other-administration stonewalling and NOT talking to NK is going to result in NK doing more missile tests, and continuing to do so until the US altered its strategy. Which would happen, eventually.
    Just vague promises. KJU promised to denuclearize - someday. Trump promised to stop war games - someday.

  3. #753
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    The historic meeting between the President of the United States of America and the Chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea produced a wonderful photo op, and not much more.


    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Kim Jong-un_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Donald J. Trump
    To be taken seriously for the first time_ _ _ _ _ _ To be taken seriously for the first time [Kim only gets one chance here]

    The attention of the world_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ The attention of the world

    Vague statement on denuclearization_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doesn’t have to stay an extra day

    Suspension of US-ROK war games_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Offer to destroy a testing site

    Confusion among US allies_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Chance to showboat instincts, ability, talent [Confusion in China too ? according to you]

    US security guarantee_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Produced a Hollywood-style movie trailer! [What US security guarantee ? there is no peace declaration (yet)]

    Similar statement phrasing to 1994, 2005_ _ _ Repeat of an old commitment on KIAs



    Bottom line: “As for the substance of the meeting, there wasn’t any.”
    … as per The Washington Post.

    The full text of the statement is here:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44453330

    Both sides are looking good at the end of this meet.

    Substance of the meeting was the beginning of a process, why is that so hard to grasp by these scribes !!!

    The hard bargaining begins now and commitment to see it through is how both of these players will be judged

  4. #754
    Military Professional 667medic's Avatar
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    Two nations (North Korea and Singapore) and two individuals (Kim and Trump) gained gained the most from this so called summit.
    Seek Save Serve Medic

  5. #755
    Military Professional 667medic's Avatar
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    Kim boy just gave a whole new meaning to the phrase “Squeaky wheel gets the grease”
    Seek Save Serve Medic

  6. #756
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Just vague promises. KJU promised to denuclearize - someday. Trump promised to stop war games - someday.
    I don't know about that. He has made statements before about the expense of US troops over there. Now he uses a North Korean term to describe our war games. He says they should be ended. He says we can save a lot of money which may seem to say we could withdraw troops. He says all this which no doubt catches the South, Japan, and it seems some in the Pentagon by surprise. His comments closely resemble what Beijing and Pyongyang have always wanted.

    It walks like a duck and quacks like a duck so it does sound like a concession. At the very least it could undercut the negotiating team by removing an Ace from their back pocket prematurely. It would seem to me, being the expert deal maker he claims to be, that I would want to keep my cards close to my vest rather than exposing them to the other players.

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    It walks like a duck and quacks like a duck so it does sound like a concession.
    Then let's call a spade a spade. Those exercises were not meant for self defence. They were meant to sharpen forces to to attack and destroy 80% of the North Korean Army and held twice a year; leaving absolutely no doubt that both South Korea and the US are on a warfooting. If you can execute the exercise, you can execute the operational plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    At the very least it could undercut the negotiating team by removing an Ace from their back pocket prematurely. It would seem to me, being the expert deal maker he claims to be, that I would want to keep my cards close to my vest rather than exposing them to the other players.
    He got an ace back. He got KJU to allow AMERICAN verification of nuclear disarmament. Not the UN, not the IAEA, not the Chinese, not the Russians, not neutral India, not South Korean, not Japanese but AMERICAN VERIFCATION.

  8. #758
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    yes, the whole thing is based off of vague promises, on both sides. HOWEVER, the -way- Trump framed his promises, he blindsided both the Pentagon and ROK with the exercise announcement, and he echoed NK propaganda while making said announcement.

    sure, you can put the exercises back on, or just vaguely push things off to the future...but he's already 1. weakened his future position and 2. lowered ROK trust in the US as a reliable ally by using those words, when he didn't have to. and both of these points are concrete North Korean and Chinese goals!!
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    yes, the whole thing is based off of vague promises, on both sides. HOWEVER, the -way- Trump framed his promises, he blindsided both the Pentagon and ROK with the exercise announcement, and he echoed NK propaganda while making said announcement.

    sure, you can put the exercises back on, or just vaguely push things off to the future...but he's already 1. weakened his future position and 2. lowered ROK trust in the US as a reliable ally by using those words, when he didn't have to. and both of these points are concrete North Korean and Chinese goals!!
    You've got to be shitting me! After the way he blindsided Ottawa, Seoul, and Tokyo, you think Beijing and Pyongyang can pressure him into keeping his word?

    Also, this is the man who outplayed KJU. Fat Boy made noises about cancellation but it was Trump who cancelled the meet and KJU scarmbled to put it back on. Trump cancelled once. He can, will, and has done it again and again and again.

    I do not see the exercises being cancelled until the first American verified the first North Korean claim.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 13 Jun 18, at 07:06.

  10. #760
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    ^^this

    Just call the whole thing off whenever if he wants to

    These very tactics are diving folks mad across the globe
    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Jun 18, at 03:59.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Just vague promises. KJU promised to denuclearize - someday. Trump promised to stop war games - someday.
    It looks to me like his promise to stop war games are today, as in they are already in effect, and will continue during the process of denuclearization, and probably beyond.

    Are there any usually scheduled exercises coming up that we can judge this on?

  12. #762
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    GVChamp,

    • The DPRK’s last missile test was in November. That so-called freeze is not the result of either the promise of a summit or its coming to fruition.
    • The outcome of the summit was several bucketfuls less than what the Twit promised. When it was obvious he couldn’t deliver, he said well, I’m only here for one day. Anyone remember how long President Carter spent with Begin and Sadat at Camp David? (It was 13 days.)
    • As for passing the negotiating baton on to the subordinates, that strikes me as odd, given that the Stable Genius doesn’t think anyone can negotiate half as well as he can.



    As for the cost of war games that others cited, well let’s just agree that wars when you’re not quite prepared are a whole lot more expensive.

    Verification? Still just a pipe dream, as in 1994 and 2005.
    Not part of the joint statement.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You've got to be shitting me! After the way he blindsided Ottawa, Seoul, and Tokyo, you think Beijing and Pyongyang can pressure him into keeping his word?

    Yea yea and Mexico will pay for a wall and probably Canada too soon and the inauguration crowd was the biggest, greatest ever and he never had any deals with Moscow ever.... Is he a virgin too?

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Dear President Obama & other participants

    You have single handedly, throughly and utterly betrayed us to our mortal enemy with this Iran deal

    xxxxx
    Israel & KSA

    Bias is dead easy to spot, its the inability to find even one positive thing about an administration
    I never agreed with Iran deal on the way it was made. Yes they did let them off too easy but what has Trumpkin got from this? As we predicted sweet fa. But we have to give him a Nobel now? Never.

  15. #765
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I never agreed with Iran deal on the way it was made. Yes they did let them off too easy but what has Trumpkin got from this? As we predicted sweet fa. But we have to give him a Nobel now? Never.
    Well I agreed with it and pushed for it since 2011 in opposition to this board and ultimately got it as i am with this Korean deal.

    What has he got ? wait for it. Stop calling things out before hand.

    He is expecting some progress within this term, he too wants to pull off an Obama

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