View Poll Results: What is the best course of action in dealing with North Korea?

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  • Full scale preemptive military strike

    4 28.57%
  • Limited preemptive military strike

    0 0%
  • Appeasement in the form of recognition and aid

    1 7.14%
  • Strategic Patience - Neither negotiation nor military action

    9 64.29%
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Thread: The Korean Dilemma

  1. #676
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    What's the end-game, though? North Korea isn't going to torpedo the nuclear program. They might backtrack a bit, but they will still maintain their ability to develop nukes quickly, and they'll just suffer otherwise.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  2. #677
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    It's a bluff on KJU's part. Otherwise, he would not have gone to China - twice. He needs sanction relief and he needs it fast. Trump has responded that he's not going to beg for a meet and MAX THUNDER has not been cancelled - by the South Koreans no less.

    In fact, the more I think about it. What does Fat Boy got left? His only ace was nukes and that did not make him the power that he wants to be. His military is in shambles. He needs trade, especially with the Chinese. What's he going to do? Restart his nuke program? Spending more money he doesn't have?

    The Chinese sanctions hurt and hurt big time. He needs Trump's ok far more than Trump needs a photo op.
    heh yeah, KJU's hardballing Trump : D

  3. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    What's the end-game, though?
    He wants what Trump has. To be respected/feared across the world. Only the ugly little word called survival is threatening his delusions of grandeur.

    You're right. Fat Boy is not going to abandon his nukes. It's his only card to bargin with. Give that up and he is nothing more than a beggar to his Chinese overlords.

  4. #679
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Was listening to a talk by Robert Kelly. The one whose daughter is world famous : D

    He said Kim called these talks on his own. NK cares the least about world opinion. It wasn't any external factors. Those played a role but are secondary, so you can include Trump & Chinese sanctions in here as well. Kim is ready for talks because he knows he can hit the US with a nuke and the Americans know it too. Why else was there this talk of nuclear war. Either get the nukes from him or hit them are the only two options

    The other part about whether his backers are hungry. Here is a quote by Benjamin Franklin that is apt

    We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.

    Literally.

    NK is run by about 200k people, if they don't stick together they are all dead. If they have to go hungry they will go hungry but they won't pull the rug from Kim

    Kim isn't desperate. He's out shopping
    Last edited by Double Edge; 22 May 18, at 08:04.

  5. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    He said Kim called these talks on his own. NK cares the least about world opinion. It wasn't any external factors. Those played a role but are secondary, so you can include Trump & Chinese sanctions in here as well. Kim is ready for talks because he knows he can hit the US with a nuke and the Americans know it too. Why else was there this talk of nuclear war. Either get the nukes from him or hit them are the only two options
    North Korea does not have a nuke that can hit the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Kim isn't desperate. He's out shopping
    If he was shopping, he would not have kowtowed to Xi like he did.

  6. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    As I've maintained all along: A small child could play Trump.

    In both senses of the word.
    As I said, between Fat Boy and Trump, I'll take Trump.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pres...ry?id=55241910

    Trump offers promises in exchange for verifiable disarmament.

  7. #682
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    i think it's pretty clear now that it's been Moon that is playing Trump, not Kim.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i think it's pretty clear now that it's been Moon that is playing Trump, not Kim.
    Maybe but Trump is offerring nothing but promises while Kim has to at least stop nuclear development; more specificially re-entry vehicle and fusing development.

  9. #684
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    Kim has to at least stop nuclear development; more specificially re-entry vehicle and fusing development.
    to the extent any of that is happening, it's probably being forced not by Trump but by the collapse of the nuclear testing mountain, lol.

    so as far as i can tell both sides are farting out of their mouths. Kim wants aid, Moon wants to get Trump to stop talking about hitting NK, Trump wants a Nobel, and Xi wants stability. so everyone does a Kabuki dance with intangibles.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  10. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Trump offers promises in exchange for verifiable disarmament.
    It still blows my mind that people trust Donald Trump.

    The man is a pathological liar. He lies about things that don't even really matter, then gets proved dead wrong....and then doubles down and lies about it even more.

    I'd sooner trust a rabid dog than Donald Trump.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  11. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    to the extent any of that is happening, it's probably being forced not by Trump but by the collapse of the nuclear testing mountain, lol.
    Don't see how that has anything to do with rocket developments.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    so as far as i can tell both sides are farting out of their mouths. Kim wants aid, Moon wants to get Trump to stop talking about hitting NK, Trump wants a Nobel, and Xi wants stability. so everyone does a Kabuki dance with intangibles.
    But only Kim has to offer up something while everyone else is offerring nothing but photo ops.

  12. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    It still blows my mind that people trust Donald Trump.

    The man is a pathological liar. He lies about things that don't even really matter, then gets proved dead wrong....and then doubles down and lies about it even more.

    I'd sooner trust a rabid dog than Donald Trump.
    Joe, you can't have it both ways. Either Trump is too stupid to deal with KJU or Trump would lie to KJU to get what he wants. I point to the fact that these promises of protection ain't worth the paper they're written on but it does throw the ball back into KJU's court.

  13. #688
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    this is why the whole Singapore meeting is coming apart (and wouldn't have mattered even if did go off): it's a case where both sides have leaders known for reneging on deals. there's no long-term incentive whatsoever.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  14. #689
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    Completely off-topic, but if KJU and Trump were to meet, would it be on a golf course? Maybe the negotiations could be settled on the basis of a golfing duel, whomever gets more holes-in-one wins the negotiations.

    I'll bet the final score will be 18 holes-in-one to 17, but without outside intervention, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance of whether it's Trump or KJU who prevails with a final score of 18-17.

    I'd pay a million dollars of somebody else's money to be the guy hiding in the tree line with an air horn for the golfing duel. I would most likely blow off the air horn when KJU is taking his swing on the 18th hole, thus ensuring he only gets 17 holes-in-one.

    As a consolation prize, I'd have a buffet of double bread with meat in the form of Quad Whoppers and McQuadruples for KJU. I'd also have this rocket for him to ride, with a roll of quarters on hand to operate it, as a consolation for him losing his nuclear rocket capabilities. I might even hire Dennis Rodman to serve KJU double bread with meat, and feed quarters into the rocket spaceship ride.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 23 May 18, at 17:52.
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  15. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    this is why the whole Singapore meeting is coming apart (and wouldn't have mattered even if did go off): it's a case where both sides have leaders known for reneging on deals. there's no long-term incentive whatsoever.
    I agree but KJU needs aide and needs aide bad. He's backed into a corner by his own doing. He's got to give up something.

    What and how I don't know. KJU was the one who put his nukes on the table. Both Moon and Trump had said Force Reduction is off the table.

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