View Poll Results: What is the best course of action in dealing with North Korea?

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  • Full scale preemptive military strike

    4 28.57%
  • Limited preemptive military strike

    0 0%
  • Appeasement in the form of recognition and aid

    1 7.14%
  • Strategic Patience - Neither negotiation nor military action

    9 64.29%
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Thread: The Korean Dilemma

  1. #211
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    well, to some extent: Germany has considerably more leverage against Russia than West Germany did against the USSR.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  2. #212
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Yes but the relationship has not become more antagonistic

    If that's the case with the Koreas too then maybe there will be more pressure with Taiwan which would then bring the US into it

    A unified Korea will take at least a couple of decades to rebuild, it won't cause a problem for China. The same would apply towards Japan as well.

    it's interesting you see a weakening of US - Korea alliance. It does become redundant i suppose

    But US has the second most forces in Germany currently, there hasn't been a reduction let alone a pull out

    Enjoyed the article : )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Jan 18, at 19:52.

  3. #213
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    Yes but the relationship has not become more antagonistic
    outside of actual war, it's hard to be more antagonistic than the context of the Cold War. in any case, Putin must acknowledge Merkel as a power in her own right, rather than as a mere puppet of the Americans.

    A unified Korea will take at least a couple of decades to rebuild, it won't cause a problem for China. The same would apply towards Japan as well.
    i agree, which is why i wrote in the article that reunification would allow for a considerable amount of Chinese forces to flow south.

    but there will certainly be a more difficult relationship between all three countries without the unifying effect of Kim.

    But US has the second most forces in Germany currently, there hasn't been a reduction let alone a pull out
    i actually expect something similar with a Korea scenario-- probably US forces continue to be positioned where they are, with some but not significant reduction in force. if for nothing else, to keep hotheads in Korea and Japan in check.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  4. #214
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    DXP wanted the Americans to stay in a united Korea to prevent a war between Japan and Korea. Given the fact that Kim continually fire rockets over Japan, that might not be a false foreshadowing.

  5. #215
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    outside of actual war, it's hard to be more antagonistic than the context of the Cold War. in any case, Putin must acknowledge Merkel as a power in her own right, rather than as a mere puppet of the Americans.
    I guess the difference is Russia became weaker after the USSR. A complete role reversal

    EU is like a German led COMECON. To challenge NATO without the warsaw pact

    China on the other hand will continue to get stronger or is expected to do so

    Whether a unified Korea becomes more hawkish to wards China will determine whether they see a need for a US alliance. I can't see one Korea turning neutral, that would be trusting China too much

  6. #216
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    DXP wanted the Americans to stay in a united Korea to prevent a war between Japan and Korea. Given the fact that Kim continually fire rockets over Japan, that might not be a false foreshadowing.
    I thought he does that because Japan is the base where invading troops will come from. Most US troops deployed in the world are in Japan.

    Not seeing any Korean - Japanese hatred here. Just deterrence against an American colloborator

  7. #217
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    DE,

    Not seeing any Korean - Japanese hatred here. Just deterrence against an American colloborator
    if there's one hatred that rivals the India-Pakistan one, it's the Korea-Japan one.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I thought he does that because Japan is the base where invading troops will come from. Most US troops deployed in the world are in Japan.

    Not seeing any Korean - Japanese hatred here. Just deterrence against an American colloborator
    Comfort women.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    if there's one hatred that rivals the India-Pakistan one, it's the Korea-Japan one.
    Sino-Japan ain't that far behind.

  9. #219
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    at least the Chinese can say that they outlasted the Japanese in the war. Koreans...not so much.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  10. #220
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Comfort women.
    Yeah, you say this.

    Tell me, how does it compare with allying with a country that nuked you not once but twice and fed you your present day constitution that stipulates even in the event of a war that North Korea would have to give consent to Japan to enter the war

    This is why the Japanese cannot deploy any where and it does not look like that requirement will go away any time whether Abe wants it or not
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Jan 18, at 00:28.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Tell me, how does it compare with allying with a country that nuked you not once but twice and fed you your present day constitution that stipulates even in the event of a war that North Korea would have to give consent to Japan to enter the war
    Forget the nukes. This photo had a bigger impact.

    The God is dead. Long live the New God.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  12. #222
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Forget the nukes. This photo had a bigger impact.

    The God is dead. Long live the New God.
    Agree, the only saving grace is they got to keep the emperor. Meaning had the soviets got there earlier they would have lost him and we are given to believe, national sense of being (!)

    Give me more on this Korea - Japan thing. What sustains it. Is there a pattern of subjugation going on much earlier and hence longer

    Americans are not going to apologise
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Jan 18, at 00:55.

  13. #223
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    DE,



    if there's one hatred that rivals the India-Pakistan one, it's the Korea-Japan one.
    Ours is ideological. Think of US and the soviets. Enduring. There is no ideological conflict between Korea & Japan. Their war is like a euro war where one power runs over the other every fifty years and its been going on for centuries earlier

    Was wondering once the cold war was over what was the reason for Japan to remain allied to the US ?

    Today it seems like a good idea but i'm wondering about the 90s

    Would this then apply for a unified Korea

    Also consider Japan was a defeated power whereas Korea was saved by the US

    Korea today would not be what it is without US underwriting security in the region. A unified Korea could only happen indeed was the original plan with US assistance
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Jan 18, at 12:12.

  14. #224
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    You don't get it. The Americans litterally destroyed SHINTOISM. That one photo proved to the the Japanese people that the MacArthur was the new God. Whatever the Americans did from the point on was litterally the word of God to the Japanese. It was not until the 60s that a new generation of Japanese not accustomed to Shintoism that they adopted the American outlook on government and that it is not the be-all, know-all of human dictate that the Japanese was accustomed to.

    To the WWII generation, it was litterally a War of the Gods and their God lost. As for the American apology, you don't expect a God to apologize.

  15. #225
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    DXP wanted the Americans to stay in a united Korea to prevent a war between Japan and Korea. Given the fact that Kim continually fire rockets over Japan, that might not be a false foreshadowing.
    This is a pretty telling statement given who said it. Deng would have loved for the US to quit the entire region.

    If China didn't want US troops at their border in the 50s, they certainly didn't want them after

    Doesn't explain why there will be a war between Jorea or japan, They won't be. But there is animosity and that is still unclear

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