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Thread: Iowa Class A and Class B joint

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Following the discussion....

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBattleship View Post
    Part of the class A plate. Not hard to do as I said previously, the edges are NOT face hardened (kept "soft" with wet asbestos during heating) so they can be machined as key lock edges or grooves (fwd & aft edges) for separate keys or drilled for Class C armor bolts.
    Mr. L,

    I've been following the discussion about the Class "A" & "B" steel and have been waiting for someone to inquirer about the type of weld.... ?
    After the steel is prepared, i.e., the heat applied, is this a straight forward "lap joint weld" or is the metal ground and built back up as in a "grove weld" on both sides of the "lap joint" ?
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  2. #17
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Mr. L,

    I've been following the discussion about the Class "A" & "B" steel and have been waiting for someone to inquirer about the type of weld.... ?
    After the steel is prepared, i.e., the heat applied, is this a straight forward "lap joint weld" or is the metal ground and built back up as in a "grove weld" on both sides of the "lap joint" ?
    It all depends upon the thickness of the plating as to how extreme the "gap" has to be to have a FULL penetration weld on REVERSE polarity. Reverse polarity has the POSITIVE end of the arc in the BASE METAL (the plate itself) so it is the BASE metal you are fusing together and the welding rod is just the filler.

    We had a BIG problem on the Tarawa class LHAs where the private shipyard who built them hired welder "trainees" from Alabama and taught them to weld only on straight polarity which only piles welding rod on top of the base metal. This is also called "SHORT ARC" welding and is strictly vorboden on ship's main hull framing. It took the Navy years to wash out all of the short arc weld filler with #5 scarfing tips and re-weld the proper way. This short arc welding was discovered when the Saipan had her stbd bow caved in during an Atlantic storm and the Belleau Wood had her port bow caved in (same year) in a Pacific storm. Both incidents in 1991.
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

  3. #18
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    On the Iowa class ships, there are some reports that holding bulkhead 4 (the final one) is 1.5" thick next to the turrets and magazines and 25# by the boilers and machinery spaces. But the booklet of general plans seem to list holding bulkhead 4 as #25 everywhere. Do you know what the thickness of that bulkhead is by the turrets and magazines? Thank you.

  4. #19
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radical View Post
    On the Iowa class ships, there are some reports that holding bulkhead 4 (the final one) is 1.5" thick next to the turrets and magazines and 25# by the boilers and machinery spaces. But the booklet of general plans seem to list holding bulkhead 4 as #25 everywhere. Do you know what the thickness of that bulkhead is by the turrets and magazines? Thank you.
    To be truthful, I never needed to go that far fwd or aft to look at bhd 4. It is true that along the machinery spaces from the 2nd deck on down is "only" 25# plate with watertight doors in it. One problem I noticed, however, was that at the Oil King offices on the stbd side, the door was always open and the space outbd of bhd 4 was used for paper stowage. If GQ is ever sounded, I hope the crew remembers to close that door and dog it down VERY tight.
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

  5. #20
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    GAWK! CHOKE! SPIT!

    Any way this crow can be made to taste better?

    In cleaning up all of my manuals, notes and plans to donate to the Iowa (or throw out) before I kick the bucket, I finally found a (somewhat blurry) sepia copy of C&R Basic drawing No. 351341 ---BB-61 & BB-62 ARRANGEMENT OF ARMOR. This plan shows the general arrangement of all of the Class A & B armor and its thicknesses.

    Section 5-A shows the joint between the A & B armor belts. Well, sort of. That section is only 4 3/4" high and very blurry. Remember, this is a sepia copy of another copy of the oilskin original (maybe) that in turn was a copy of the original paper drawing. So a lot of fine detail is lost.

    BUT, it seems to show that in fact the keyway slot is in the center of the top of the class B and the bottom of the class A. It shows no finite detail which would be on the reference drawings (of which I know I do NOT have any copies). There are 10 reference drawings that would show that detail: C&R dwgs 351342 through 351383.

    Now, I'm having enough problems swallowing solid food (no front incisors, only two fangs) and if my cancer doesn't kill me, this crow will.
    Last edited by RustyBattleship; 11 Sep 17, at 01:08.
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Excellent information...

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBattleship View Post
    GAWK! CHOKE! SPIT!

    Any way this crow can be made to taste better?

    In cleaning up all of my manuals, notes and plans to donate to the Iowa (or throw out) before I kick the bucket, I finally found a (somewhat blurry) sepia copy of C&R Basic drawing No. 351341 ---BB-61 & BB-62 ARRANGEMENT OF ARMOR. This plan shows the general arrangement of all of the Class A & B armor and its thicknesses.

    Section 5-A shows the joint between the A & B armor belts. Well, sort of. That section is only 4 3/4" high and very blurry. Remember, this is a sepia copy of another copy of the oilskin original (maybe) that in turn was a copy of the original paper drawing. So a lot of fine detail is lost.

    BUT, it seems to show that in fact the keyway slot is in the center of the top of the class B and the bottom of the class A. It shows no finite detail which would be on the reference drawings (of which I know I do NOT have any copies). There are 10 reference drawings that would show that detail: C&R dwgs 351342 through 351383.

    Now, I'm having enough problems swallowing solid food (no front incisors, only two fangs) and if my cancer doesn't kill me, this crow will.
    Mr. L,

    I've attached a cross section drawing of what I understand you are reciting from the drawings discovered for the BB armor.
    Does this appear to be correct?
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  7. #22
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Mr. L,

    I've attached a cross section drawing of what I understand you are reciting from the drawings discovered for the BB armor.
    Does this appear to be correct?
    Yes but the key bar (and the slots in the belts) is wider. It's hard to scale from such an old and fuzzy drawing, but the key way is dead center of the 12" thick plate edges and is 3" to 4" wide. Well, it would have to be a pretty thick chunk of steel to hold those monstrous belts in place.

    And there is NO WELDING. It's plate against plate only. There wouldn't be enough 25-20 stainless steel welding rod around to finish even one Iowa to say nothing of all six.
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

  8. #23
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    A large task .....

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBattleship View Post
    Yes but the key bar (and the slots in the belts) is wider. It's hard to scale from such an old and fuzzy drawing, but the key way is dead center of the 12" thick plate edges and is 3" to 4" wide. Well, it would have to be a pretty thick chunk of steel to hold those monstrous belts in place.

    And there is NO WELDING. It's plate against plate only. There wouldn't be enough 25-20 stainless steel welding rod around to finish even one Iowa to say nothing of all six.
    That your be a very critical "blacksmithing task", two different metals with a milled keyway and compound curves just to make it interesting....

  9. #24
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    That your be a very critical "blacksmithing task", two different metals with a milled keyway and compound curves just to make it interesting....
    There are no "curves" in any of the Class A or B plates. Where they have to "move" inboard to be within the proper distance from the shell lines there are "knuckles" at specific frames machined by milling the vertical ends at specific bevels. These "knuckle" joints are at frames 65, 87, 117 & 151. The top & bottom edges of the Class A and the top edge of the Class B are all parallel to the base line. The bottom edge of the Class B begins to rise at frame 143 in a straight line to 166. Simply speaking; Rather than putting curves into plating over a foot thick, they were laid in as Trapazoidals.

    Good thing I haven't donated that plan yet to the IOWA. But it will be within the next few weeks. Maybe. There has been some serious questions about my "terminal" cancer. At this time I should be feeling completely exhausted with some if not extreme pain lying down on a bed waiting for the Grim Reaper to add me to his car pool. Instead I'm still doing repair work on my daughter's concrete block wall and on Friday I served Quarterdeck watch on the IOWA to welcome aboard several members of a HAM radio club that had an old friend or so in it. Also went back to the radio room (where we have our own HAM club) to describe the armored bulkheads and overhead that I designed for it. Spent about 5 hours aboard her and was pretty tired, but then my heavy safety boots didn't help that much either.

    If I knew how to send photos of me on board (that my required nurse accompanying me took), I would post them. But then again, you might not like them as I lost so much weight in 3 starvation health centers that I look like a Klingon from Star Trek O.S. and that bulge in my shirt is not a pot belly but still Feeding Tubes to pump Baby food into me (besides the fact I have been on solid food for nearly 3 months now). I have NOT received any phone calls from any of the hospital doctors checking on my condition. Only my registered nurse, Hospice nurse, daughter & son-in-law think (& pray) that I have been misdiagnosed. But only a Retscan will prove that & I'm not ready to go back to ANY hospital again.

    No matter how pretty the nurses are.
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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