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Thread: USS John S McCain Collision

  1. #1
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    USS John S McCain Collision

    It seems the USS McCain collided with a merchant ship outside of Singapore in the early morning hours. Early morning, check. Container ship, check. Outside a major port, check. Crowded, check.

    Makes me wonder if something is being missed here in training?

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/20/asia/u...ore/index.html

  2. #2
    Senior Contributor DonBelt's Avatar
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    Time for a safety stand down and review of PQS.

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    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Beware of the trifecta ....

    Two USN ships involved ???
    Beware of the "trifecta".... I hope the event was not a recurrence of the earlier incident this year.

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    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Military Professional JCT's Avatar
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    Actually, the third collision this year. In May the LAKE CHAMPLAIN hit a South Korean fishing vessel. Once is happenstance. Twice is a coincidence. Three times? Good chance someone above the level of the various ship's COs will get fired.

    I hope that the missing Sailors are recovered alive, but after this much elapsed time it will soon become a recovery effort versus a search.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Couple of more months and the Navy could be hard up for destroyers at this rate.

  7. #7
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post

    I like the simple last sentence. This incident will be investigated. Ya think!

  8. #8
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Wonder and thoughts...

    As an "expert" sitting behind my PC monitor thousands of miles away on solid land I extend my thoughts and prayers to those sailors missing and their families who are in their own personal angst as I write.

    The prevailing thought that my mind turns to is what has changed and or perhaps broken in the USN school of navigation?
    Both as a pilot and ship's master navigating fairly busy TCA's and congested water ways the head on a swivel is "Rule 1" when operating and air or water craft.
    Please don't get me started on texting while driving.
    And yes my neck doesn't turn as well as when I started plowing the air /water ways several decades ago.

    I've my opinion of the "Next Gen" FAA control system replacing the "Post War VOR network" for navigating and will watch with interest as the track record builds for success.
    But my goodness ... USN DDG's being rammed or ramming large slow merchant vessels in open water?
    I'm in wonder.
    Last edited by blidgepump; 22 Aug 17, at 04:41.

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    There's some speculation that a cyber attack could be involved.

    http://www.realcleardefense.com/arti...et_112102.html

    This comes after Russian GPS spoofing affected Black Sea shipping last year:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...berweapon/amp/

    However, I find this hard to believe. Even in the scenario that both ships lost GPS, how does a destroyer fail to see and avoid a big merchant ship?

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    The USN operational pause after collision.

    What exactly does this mean? "Everyone drop anchor and stay put", "all return to harbour", or just move as little as necessary?...

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    Military Professional JCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    There's some speculation that a cyber attack could be involved.

    http://www.realcleardefense.com/arti...et_112102.html

    This comes after Russian GPS spoofing affected Black Sea shipping last year:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...berweapon/amp/

    However, I find this hard to believe. Even in the scenario that both ships lost GPS, how does a destroyer fail to see and avoid a big merchant ship?
    They should be using their mil-GPS systems which are generally spoof-resistant. As with the FITZ, at night a dark ship can be hard to spot, particularly in the middle of the channel without a lot of ambient light. Navigation lights can be obscured, the external watch could be asleep, the ship may have been observing EMCON and thus not using her radars, etc. Lots we do not know now the day after the collision. Heck, we still do not know the exact cause of the FITZ collision.

    Added: And nothing cyber about spoofing GPS signals, it's just putting out an RF signal to fool the GPS receiving into miscalculating its position. No way to insert anything or 'cut off IT pathways' as the article suggests. Journalistic hyperbole at it's worst. I liked the bit about the LORAN system...
    Last edited by JCT; 21 Aug 17, at 21:22. Reason: Added info

  12. #12
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    The damage...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    how does a destroyer fail to see and avoid a big merchant ship?
    This is the part i don't get and these are military ships and its happened three times already this year

    Another strange thing is this ten missing. Where'd they go. Injured yes but missing?
    Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Aug 17, at 01:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    This is the part i don't get and these are military ships and its happened three times already this year

    Another strange thing is this ten missing. Where'd they go. Injured yes but missing?
    Maybe they are in the flooded compartments?

  15. #15
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    NPR reported that this is the fourth collision this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCT View Post
    Actually, the third collision this year. In May the LAKE CHAMPLAIN hit a South Korean fishing vessel. Once is happenstance. Twice is a coincidence. Three times? Good chance someone above the level of the various ship's COs will get fired.

    I hope that the missing Sailors are recovered alive, but after this much elapsed time it will soon become a recovery effort versus a search.
    Just what qualifies as a "collision in USN slang".... NPR radio quoted 4 collisions this year in the Pacific?

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