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    Contributor 1980s's Avatar
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    US plan to improve Afghan intelligence operations branded a $457m failure

    US plan to improve Afghan intelligence operations branded a $457m failure: https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...a-457m-failure

    This story is one failure too many. For many years i was a firm supporter of an American and Western commitment to Afghanistan. But now i am of the view that it is an exercise is uselessness. Afghanistan is hopeless, it will never be a functioning, progressing and cohesive state. It is clear to me that it is perhaps the most corrupt, backwards and dysfunctional of all countries in the World by far, and America cannot help it to evolve. Indeed, it is a failed state on so many levels. The sucess stories post-2001 are artificial, and wholly dependant on American and other foreign backing. The Afghan state would collapse within a week without foreign aid of any sort. I dont believe that this artificial post-2001 state that was installed there should be propped up any further. They have to find their own way, and on their own terms as one state, or as many states and satellites of others.

    Pathetic is the only word that comes to mind now when i hear "Afghanistan".

    Time to call it a loss and just get out of there, right now!

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Topic comes up from time to time
    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=62911

    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    i was a firm supporter of an American and Western commitment to Afghanistan. But now i am of the view that it is an exercise is uselessness. Afghanistan is hopeless, it will never be a functioning, progressing and cohesive state. It is clear to me that it is perhaps the most corrupt, backwards and dysfunctional of all countries in the World by far, and America cannot help it to evolve. Indeed, it is a failed state on so many levels.

    I dont believe that this artificial post-2001 state that was installed there should be propped up any further. They have to find their own way, and on their own terms as one state, or as many states and satellites of others.

    Pathetic is the only word that comes to mind now when i hear "Afghanistan".

    Time to call it a loss and just get out of there, right now!
    aka cut and run. Some years pass, something bad happens, its tracked down and people ask why did we leave Afghanistan

    The sucess stories post-2001 are artificial, and wholly dependant on American and other foreign backing.
    But they are real. We mostly hear about bad things because they are the exception. Time to worry is when we only hear good news because then the bad stuff is so common it isn't worth reporting on.

    Has that point been reached in Afghanistan ?

    The Afghan state would collapse within a week without foreign aid of any sort.
    Najibullah lasted till '96. Soviets folded three years earlier. The reason was the mujahideen starting quitting soon as the soviets left. This actually allowed the afghan army to survive longer than anticipated and only had problems when soviet fuel shipments stopped entirely.

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    Contributor 1980s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Topic comes up from time to time
    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=62911



    aka cut and run. Some years pass, something bad happens, its tracked down and people ask why did we leave Afghanistan


    But they are real. We mostly hear about bad things because they are the exception. Time to worry is when we only hear good news because then the bad stuff is so common it isn't worth reporting on.

    Has that point been reached in Afghanistan ?


    Najibullah lasted till '96.
    Soviets folded three years earlier. The reason was the mujahideen starting quitting soon as the soviets left. This actually allowed the afghan army to survive longer than anticipated and only had problems when soviet fuel shipments stopped entirely.
    I dont see the relevance or point of your reply. It's 2017, not 1992, when the Najibullah regime collapsed (not 1996 as you appear to claim - he was exeucted in '96, but had resigned years before). We are living in a very different time and age from the 1990s.

    America has nothing left to offer, or to gain, from Afghanistan. This may be an entirely different situation for your country, but America is not fighting for India's agenda in Afghanistan, nor should it be.

    Indians can foot the bill for propping up a failed and useless Afghanistan if they want to, but American tax payers should no longer do so. Afghanistan is a failure, and has always been so. This is an American war with zero benefit for America, but most importantly, zero benefit for the American people.
    Last edited by 1980s; 08 Aug 17, at 01:34.

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    US policy has yet to come out for the region. So the lobbying has already started. I don't believe the US is leaving the area any time soon.

    Indian servicemen haven't died in Afghanistan so what will you tell the families of those that did lose loved ones.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1AM0F5

    Nothing has been decided yet. The question is of status quo or increase.

    Full pull out isn't even an option but is included because of Trump.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Aug 17, at 04:12.

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Good summary here from Gen Keane, now to get Trump to agree. We'll only know after a month.



    A fifth of the world's terrorists live in Afghanistan & Pakistan

    See what happened in Iraq, US quits around 2011, it took just two years for Da'esh to spring up. Now the US is fighting Da'esh and is back in Iraq.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Aug 17, at 16:09.

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    And we have a decision, thought it would take longer and only come out after Labour day (heard they needed all summer to make their minds up) but Trump just okayed the increase his generals asked for : )

    Trump OKs sending 4,000 more troops to Afghanistan | Fox | Aug 22 2017

    It's real simple, so long as the Afghans have a govt in office it means the Taliban are losing


    The next pillar of our new strategy is to change the approach in how to deal with Pakistan. We can no longer be silent about Pakistan’s safe havens for terrorist organizations, the Taliban and other groups that pose a threat to the region and beyond. Pakistan has much to gain from partnering with our effort in Afghanistan. It has much to lose by continuing to harbor criminals and terrorists. In the past, Pakistan has been a valued partner. Our militaries have worked together against common enemies. The Pakistani people have suffered greatly from terrorism and extremism. We recognize those contributions and those sacrifices.

    But Pakistan has also sheltered the same organizations that try every single day to kill our people. We have been paying Pakistan billions and billions of dollars at the same time they are housing the very terrorists that we are fighting. But that will have to change. And that will change immediately. No partnership can survive a country’s harboring of militants and terrorists who target U.S. service members and officials. It is time for Pakistan to demonstrate its commitment to civilization, order and to peace.
    Now let's see just what price the Paks will pay for their position

    Another critical part of the South Asia strategy for America is to further develop its strategic partnership with India, the world’s largest democracy and a key security and economic partner of the United States. We appreciate India’s important contributions to stability in Afghanistan, but India makes billions of dollars in trade with the United States, and we want them to help us more with Afghanistan, especially in the area of economic assistance and development. We are committed to pursuing our shared objectives for peace and security in South Asia and the broader Indo-Pacific region.
    India get the cheque book out

    Finally, my administration will ensure that you, the brave defenders of the American people, will have the necessary tools and rules of engagement to make this strategy work, and work effectively, and work quickly. I have already lifted restrictions the previous administration placed on our war fighters that prevented the secretary of defense and our commanders in the field from fully and swiftly waging battle against the enemy. Micromanagement from Washington, D.C., does not win battles. They’re won in the field, drawing upon the judgment and expertise of wartime commanders, and front-line soldiers, acting in real time with real authority, and with a clear mission to defeat the enemy.

    That’s why we will also expand authority for American armed forces to target the terrorists and criminal networks that sow violence and chaos throughout Afghanistan. These killers need to know they have nowhere to hide, that no place is beyond the reach of American might and American arms. Retribution will be fast and powerful, as we lift restrictions and expand authorities in the field. We’re already seeing dramatic results in the campaign to defeat ISIS, including the liberation of Mosul in Iraq.

    Since my inauguration, we have achieved record-breaking success in that regard. We will also maximize sanctions and other financial and law enforcement actions against these networks to eliminate their ability to export terror. When America commits its warriors to battle, we must ensure they have every weapon to apply swift, decisive and overwhelming force. Our troops will fight to win. We will fight to win. From now on, victory will have a clear definition. Attacking our enemies, obliterating ISIS, crushing Al Qaeda, preventing the Taliban from taking over Afghanistan and stopping mass terror attacks against America before they emerge. We will ask our NATO allies and global partners to support our new strategy, with additional troop and funding increases in line with our own. We are confident they will.
    Finally, the pros will be allowed to get the job done

    He wants an honourable and enduring outcome, a fitting tribute to those that paid with their lives.

    Sounds good so far.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 23 Aug 17, at 02:22.

  7. #7
    Military Professional JCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    US plan to improve Afghan intelligence operations branded a $457m failure: https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...a-457m-failure

    This story is one failure too many. For many years i was a firm supporter of an American and Western commitment to Afghanistan. But now i am of the view that it is an exercise is uselessness. Afghanistan is hopeless, it will never be a functioning, progressing and cohesive state. It is clear to me that it is perhaps the most corrupt, backwards and dysfunctional of all countries in the World by far, and America cannot help it to evolve. Indeed, it is a failed state on so many levels. The sucess stories post-2001 are artificial, and wholly dependant on American and other foreign backing. The Afghan state would collapse within a week without foreign aid of any sort. I dont believe that this artificial post-2001 state that was installed there should be propped up any further. They have to find their own way, and on their own terms as one state, or as many states and satellites of others.

    Pathetic is the only word that comes to mind now when i hear "Afghanistan".

    Time to call it a loss and just get out of there, right now!
    We've heard this story before. In Webster's, look under corruption and it's now synonymous with Afghanistan. Corruption is endemic and people are not loyal to the state, but to their family and tribe. Historically (outside of a few exceptions) Afghanistan has never had a strong central state government. Tribal loyalties may have faded within the cities, but is still very strong in most of the rest of the country. This is not likely to change anytime soon and will make putting together a strong central government very difficult if not impossible.

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