Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[DOR]

Zhang Guohua was in command of the PLA’s 52 Div / 18 Army / 2nd FA during the October 1950 invasion of Tibet, and may have had the 53rd Div under his command as well. The CIA probably got a bucket load of information from refugees pouring south, so there’s little reason to think that India didn’t know at least as much.

In his memoirs, Zhang says the PLA in 1950 was specifically instructed to be as gentle as possible with the Tibetan people. We cannot know if this was the case at the time, but the CCP clearly knew that they were not ‘liberating’ Tibet from the KMT. The Dalai Lama has said that the PLA did not harm civilians at that time.

Note the timing: four months after the start of the Korean War, China also goes into Tibet. They had been planning it since the beginning of the year, and apparently were expecting India to facilitate a US attack on their south in an effort to establish a two-front war (maybe even three, with the KMT coming in on the coast).

Fast forward to the CIA supporting Tibetan guerrilla movements from about 1956, and generally pushing China to crack down in 1959. Zhang Guohua is again (still) in charge, so that’s a second time we get to see his military skills in action. Once again, refugees pour south and Washington and New Delhi get to hear more stories about how Zhang fights.
By 1962, or 1967, India would have no excuse for not having detailed knowledge of Zhang Guohua.

[Double Edge]

I'm saying that without knowing the names of Chinese Generals, you don't know what their intents are.

Let's begin then

Snapshot: China’s Western Theater Command | Jamestown | Jan 13 2017

Name the Commanding General.

The theater commander is Army General Zhao Zongqi, former commander of Jinan MR (2012–2016).

What's his background. . What commands did he held. Is he a political appointee or a real military man. Oh, one more thing, no one makes PLA General rank by being a coward. CCP inner circles would have eatened him alive.

The question then remains is a competent military man. You cannot answer that question until YOU AT LEAST KNOW HIS GODDAMNED NAME!

General Zhao
- participated in combat against Vietnam.
- served as commander of the 52nd Mountain Brigade in the early 1990’s (#2 on the map in Nyngchi, Tibet. The 52nd's base is close to Arunachal)
- was commander of the 14th Group Army (2005–2008) before moving to assignments in Jinan MR.

These experiences demonstrate extensive operational knowledge of mountain warfare, making Zhao a good choice as WTC commander.

Zhao Zongqi participated in the Sino-Vietnam War in 1979 when he is reported to have often disguised himself as a Vietnamese to gather information. Born in 1955, Gen Zhao Zongqi has studied Arabic and has experience of foreign service having been posted to Tanzania as a defence attaché. He has even served as a military consultant for a drama serial on the PLA in 2006. He has served twenty years in Tibet and is a member of the 18th CCP CC. [This para come from here]

He's military not political appointee.

Now, I don't know how he managed Doklam, whether micro or not. Certainly monitoring. Operational decision making might happen lower down.

For that we have to see what they have deployed against us. A nice map with a list of western theatre command here.

Closest to Doklam i see is #3. 54th Mechanized infantry Brigade, Lhasa, Tibet.

It's not close. its far away. But there is a rail link from Lhasa to Xigaze.

Cybersurge showed there were PLA camps along the S204 road from Xigaze. Need to get a list of these and who's in charge of them.

From the border personnel meets it seems the highest command here is Colonel

Nathula Garrison Commander A S Dadwal led the delegation of the Indian Army officers to the Chinese side of the border at Nathula pass around 10 am. The meeting ended around 1.30 pm, a senior Army official said.

"Senior Colonel Yuan was leading the Chinese delegation at the BPM (border personnel meeting). First, there was an informal interaction over two rounds of tea," the official said, adding then there was a round-table discussion where the Indian delegation's leader wished his Chinese counterpart on their National Day.

BPM's are held at five locations, twice a year.

five designated BPM locations across the 3,488 km-long Line of Actual Control (LAC). The points include Daulat Beg Oldie in northern Ladakh, Kibithoo in Arunachal Pradesh, Chusul in Ladakh, Bum-La near Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh and Nathu La in Sikkim.

These are ceremonial meets, cultural show, sporting contest and a meal attended by officers and their families. Whether the officers in charge of Doklam show up or another lot i don't know.

You're making the mistake of assuming their intent again.

Ah! Right, Iskander and cybersurge's videos are on this basis of "What can they do to us"

Their War Zone Campaign doctrine. Lure, isolate, and destroy a major enemy force in a battle of annihlation and then get the hell out of there before the enemy could mount a relief campaign, ie punitive expeditions.

We would be receptive to such a ploy given our confidence levels are higher.

They need a replay of '62. Maybe this time they don't get any territory.

They can portray it as a defense against Indian aggression.

[Double Edge]

For Ladakh, Jaydev Ranade mentions these promotions received in 2015

China is placing key generals on India border near Ladakh | Sunday Guardian | Jan 31 2015

The recently announced promotions in the PLA not only further consolidate Xi Jinping's grip over the PLA as Chairman of the Central Military Commission, but are also of relevance to India. Nine officers in the Lanzhou Military Region, which along with the Chengdu Military Region has operational responsibility for the Sino-Indian border, made the significant jump from senior colonel to the rank of major general on 12 January 2015.

Among them, the promotions of particular significance for India are the appointments of
- Hāli Mulati Abdourehman as Deputy Commander of the Southern Xinjiang Military District;
- Liu Lin, as Chief of Staff of the Southern Xinjiang Military District; and
- Zhang Limin, as Director of the Political Department of the Southern Xinjiang Military District.

All are from the Southern Xinjiang Military District, which exercises front-line responsibility and jurisdiction over the Hetian and Ali Military Sub-Districts.

The Hetian Military Sub-District (MSD) has front-line responsibility and jurisdiction over the areas of Daulet Beg Oldi and the Depsang Plains.

The PLA's Ali Military Sub-District (MSD) includes the three Chinese counties of Ritu (Rutok), Gar (Gartok) and Zhada (Tsamda).

Chusul and the Indian portion of Pangong Lake are opposite Ritu (Rutok) County, Indian Demchok is opposite Gar (Gartok) County and Chumar and the Shipkila Pass are opposite Zhada (Tsamda) County.

The commanders of the Hetian and Ali MSDs both hold the rank of senior colonel in the PLA. The commander of the Hetian MSD is Senior Colonel Kuang Dewang and the commander of the Ali MSD is Senior Colonel Liu Geping. The two have been in position since at least late 2013 and, as senior colonels are on the verge of the big promotion to the rank of major general.

Both the Hetian MSD and Ali MSD report to the South Xinjiang Military District based in Kashgar, which, in turn, reports directly to the Lanzhou Military Region Headquarters. Their action orders come from Lanzhou, via Kashgar, where the generals are based. At least as far as the border with India is concerned, the South Xinjiang Military District does not channel its reporting through the Xinjiang Military District headquartered in Urumqi.

The commander of the South Xinjiang Military District, presently, is 55-year-old Lt Gen Li Haiyang. He assumed command between late December 2013 and early January 2014.

Li Haiyang spent six months in 2003-2004 studying in a Russian military institute and later, in mid-2010 after only six months as chief of staff in the South Xinjiang Military District, Li Haiyang was suddenly transferred to the PLA's General Staff Department (GSD) in Beijing as director of its Combat Rapid Response Office. After two years in this post, he returned to his previous job as chief of staff in the South Xinjiang Military District. This experience makes him an officer who is known, and probably trusted, in Beijing and Lanzhou. He additionally has the requisite experience and knowledge about rapid troop deployments.Image 2nd

Maj Gen Zhang Jiansheng, Li Haiyang's predecessor, was promoted and posted as a deputy commander of the Lanzhou Military Region. He was the first officer from the South Xinjiang Military District in the last 22 years to be promoted directly to Lanzhou. He was also commander of the Ali MSD a decade ago. He can be expected to oversee all matters concerning the South Xinjiang Military District (including the Hetian and Ali MSDs) on behalf of Lanzhou Headquarters.

It is interesting too that the South Xinjiang Military District now has one lieutenant general and seven officers of the rank of major general posted at its headquarters. A few other indicators point to Beijing's increased interest in the Sino-India border. One is the upgrading of China's defence attaché in Delhi to the rank of major general, with effect from January 2015. Of the 113 countries where China has defence attaché, it has posted Major Generals only in 12.

These appointments suggest Beijing's increased interest in the Sino-Indian border and consequent growing importance of the South Xinjiang Military District. This was substantiated by an article in the influential Communist Youth League (CYL) newspaper Zhongguo Qingnian Bao on 14 May 2013, which implicitly laid claim to Ladakh and described it as part of Tibet.

Another one from the same author in September of that year

‘China’s Focus on Military Activities in Tibet’ | VIF | Sept 18 2015

Jayadeva Ranade
September 18 , 2015
China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) and the country’s official military media have kept a discernible focus on the activities and exercises of the PLA formations deployed in Tibet in the past some months.

The recent round of promotions in the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) by China’s President and Chairman of the Central Military Commission (CMC) Xi Jinping, on the occasion of the 88th anniversary of the PLA on August 1, 2015, continues the emphasis on professionalism and preference for either battle-field, or other operational, experience for elevation to the higher ranks of the PLA. Included in the list are some officers with experience of service in Tibet and identified affiliations to Xi Jinping. The promotions are also indicative of Xi Jinping having begun to prepare for the 19th Party Congress in 2017.

The ten officers now promoted to the highest rank of General are:
- PLA Deputy Chief of Staff Wang Guanzhong;
- Deputy Head of the PLA's General Political Department Yin Fanglong;
- PLA Navy Political Commissar Miao Hua;
- Commander of the Beijing Military Region Song Puxuan;
- Commander of the Lanzhou Military Region Liu Yuejun;
- Commander of the Jinan Military Region Zhao Zongqi;
- Commander of the Chengdu Military Region Li Zuocheng; and
- Political Commissar of the Nanjing Military Area Command Zheng Weiping.

The others promoted were Zhang Shibo, President of the PLA National Defence University (NDU) and Wang Ning, Commander of the People’s Armed Police Force (PAPF).

Of the ten officers promoted at least four are veterans with battle experience and service in Tibet. All four officers are assessed to be on track for further promotion.

Zhao Zongqi participated in the Sino-Vietnam War in 1979 when he is reported to have often disguised himself as a Vietnamese to gather information. Born in 1955, Gen Zhao Zongqi has studied Arabic and has experience of foreign service having been posted to Tanzania as a defence attaché. He has even served as a military consultant for a drama serial on the PLA in 2006. He has served twenty years in Tibet and is a member of the 18th CCP CC.

PAPF Commander Wang Ning, who has worked with Xi Jinping in Fujian, participated in the Sino-Vietnam War on the Yunnan border. A member of the Tibet Work Group, he has been promoted as General after only three years as Lieutenant General instead of the normal four.

Particularly important currently for India among these latest promotions to the rank of General, are the elevations of the Commanders of the Lanzhou and Chengdu Military Regions, both exercising operational jurisdiction across India’s borders.

While the Lanzhou Military Region’s jurisdiction includes the Ladakh sector, the Chengdu Military Region covers the rest of the Sino-Indian border.

Interestingly, both the Commanders were in position at the time of the intrusions in the Depsang Plains and the Chumar area in Ladakh in April 2013 and September 2014 respectively, and their promotions confirm the assessment at the time that the intrusions were deliberate, planned and pre-mediated actions. (Reference: ‘China Tests India in Ladakh’ New Indian Express dated Sept 25, 2014; & ‘China is placing key Generals on India border near Ladakh’, Sunday Guardian dated Jan 31, 2015).

60-year-old General Liu Yuejun, Commander of the Lanzhou Military Region (MR), has a blemish-free political record confirmed by his membership of the 16th, 17th and now 18th Central Committees of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). He is one of the few PLA officers at this rank with battle experience having fought in the Sino-Vietnam war (1979) and seen active duty in the Fakashan conflict. Liu Yuejun, was appointed to the present post in October 2012, and is significantly, like Xi Jinping, a “princeling”. He additionally has solid military credentials as his father, Liu Yide was a Deputy Director of the Political Department of the 14th Group Army and his mother was a soldier. Liu Yuejun was also born in a military camp of the communist people’s army. Consequent to his promotion as General, he will be a contender for elevation to a higher post at the next Party Congress in 2017.

The Commander of the Chengdu Military Region (MR), General Li Zuocheng, was earlier Deputy Commander of the Military Region. Li Zuocheng, who is 60-years old, also has battle experience and was awarded a first-class merit when he was 26 years old for leading a PLA company to victory during the month-long Sino-Vietnamese war in 1979. He suffered injuries to his right arm during the conflict. He too will be in the running for appointment to higher office at the next Party Congress. A possible disadvantage for Li Zuocheng, however, could be that he is neither a full nor alternate member of the Party’s 18th Central Committee.

The promotions point to the attention being given by the Chinese leadership to the Sino-Indian border and to steadily enhancing and consolidating military preparedness in Tibet. In addition to preserving peace and stability in its restive south-western autonomous region, Beijing is ensuring adequate military presence against India. Last year Major General Zhang Jiansheng was promoted and posted as a Deputy Commander of the Lanzhou Military Region. He was the first officer from the South Xinjiang Military District in the last 22 years to be promoted directly to Lanzhou and was Commander of Ali Military Sub District (MSD) a decade ago. He brings to the Lanzhou Military Region Headquarters first*hand knowledge of the Tibetan plateau and the western areas of the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR).

There has additionally been some interesting coverage of military matters relating to Tibet in China’s official media in recent months. Among the disclosures is the reported -- almost year round -- presence of J-10, J-11 and SU-27 aircraft in the Tibet region on either deployment or for exercises. Other reports have separately claimed that thirty two J-10 fighter aircraft were positioned for the first time in Tibet at the airfields in Lhasa and Hoping through the winter (Nov 20-Dec 25, 2014) and that Chinese fighter aircraft flew more than 1460 sorties last year.

An official Chinese media report in April 2015, claimed that the principle followed in the PLA’s deployment in the Tibet region is that of “lighter in the front, and heavier at the back”.

It explained that there are three lines of defense.
- The first is the Border Defense Regiment, which is deployed nearest to the border;
- second is the Mountain Division whose objective is to safeguard Tibet; and
- the third comprises a division-level of Motorized Combat troops.

Focussing on the need to augment rapid transportation capability in the Tibet region, the report observed that the third line of defense, or Motorized Combat troops, require a still faster mode of transportation for the troops.

This report also confirmed the strategic objectives of the dual-use road and rail transportation network being developed in the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR). Observing that the troops are largely dependent on the construction of railway infrastructure, the report said that in August 2014, a new railway line from Lhasa to Shigatse had been officially operationalised. It noted that construction of a 402-kms long railway line from Lhasa to Linzhi began in December 2014. Stating that the Lhasa-Shigatse Rail line and Lhasa- Linzhi Rail line will connect the two extreme points of east and west in the region, it said this will enhance the PLA’s ‘deployment ability’ and ‘response capability’. The Tibet region, it added, will in future become the center of the Qinghai-Tibet Railway.

The report also referred to air power and transport and said that in the last few years China had successfully constructed a number of airports on the Qinghai plateau. It said that among them there are 7 modern airports located in the TAR, where a significant number of J-10 and J-11 aircraft are deployed to create a “defense line” of air combat. It disclosed that there had also been a gradual rise in the number of J-10 aircraft deployed in the Gongga region adding that the HQ-9, a Chinese made air defense missile, has been deployed to provide safety and security for the airports and railways as well as to guard against the threat posed by the deployment of Indian aircraft on the border.

One recent official Chinese bulletin catering mainly to PLA personnel, discussed some of the military deployments in the TMD. Among the PLA Artillery Regiments deployed in the TMD it disclosed that Unit 7761 of the 308 Artillery Regiment is deployed in Lhasa; Unit 77678 is based in Nixi, Bayi village in Linzhi County; and Unit 77625 is deployed at Duilongdeqing County of Lhasa Municipality. It also listed the deployment of a few other PLA units directly under the TMD.

Units Directly under Tibet Military District：15th Engineer Brigade (Dazi, Lhasa); Unit-77619，308 Artillery Regiment, Lhasa; Unit-77611，65th Air Defense Division, Lhasa; Unit-77616，16th Vehicle Regiment, Lhasa; Communications Battalion, Lhasa; Special Operations Division, Lhasa; Unit-77606，Lhasa。

52nd Mountain Division（Bayi village, Linzhi County), Unit-77675; Artillery Regiment (Nixi, Bayi village, Linzhi County) Unit-77678; 1st Battalion (Bujiu village, Linzhi County); 2nd Battalion (Yongjiu village, Linzhi County); 3rd Battalion (Yongjiu village, Linzhi County); 4th Battalion (Bujiu village, Linzhi County).

53rd Mountain Brigade（Linzhi City, Milin County)，Unit-77680; Artillery Regiment (Jiage village, Linzhi City, Milin County) Unit-77683; First Battalion (Wolong village, Linzhi City, Milin County ); Second Battalion,(Gangga village, Linzhi County); 3rd Battalion ( Linzhi County)，4th Battalion,(Wolong village, Linzhi City, Milin County).

54th Armoured Brigade (High Plateau Cavalry- Due to the outstanding contribution to the completion of major tasks on January 13 2010 the CMC Chairman Hu Jintao signed a circular note of merit）( Lhasa City, Duilongdeqing County), Unit-77625; an Artillery Regiment; a mechanized infantry First Battalion; mechanized infantry 2nd Battalion; a mechanized infantry 3rd battalion; Tank Battalion; Chemical Warfare Battalion.

Border Defense Regiment of the Military Sub-District under Tibet Military District(also the Independent Battalions)：
1st Border Defense Regiment (Shannan City, Longzi County) Unit-77629: China-India and China-Bhutan Border.

2nd Border Defense Regiment (Shannan City, Cuona County) Unit-77635: China-India, China-Bhutan Border.
Luoza County 5th Independent Battalion (Shannan City, Luoza County)：China-Bhutan Border.

3rd Border Defense Regiment (Shigatse City, Tingri County) Unit-77639: China-India and China Nepal Border.

5th Border Defense Regiment (Shigatse City, Saga County) Unit 77646：China -Nepal Border.

6th Border Defense Regiment (Shigatse City, Yadong County) Unit-77649：China-India and China Bhutan Border. (Nathula outpost is the 1st outpost of South West, Zhangniangshe Outpost of the 6th Border Defense Regiment is the Yunzhong outpost).

Gyantse 1st Independent Battalion (Shigatse City , Gyantse County) Unit -77655：China-India and China-Bhutan Border.

Gangba 2nd Independent Battalion (Shigatse City, Gangba County) Unit-77656：China-India Border. (Chaguola Outpost is the High Plateau Red Border Defense Troops).

4th Border Defense Regiment (Chayu, Linzhi), Unit-77643：China-India Border.

Medog County 3rd Independent Battalion (Beibeng village, Linzhi City, Medog County); Medog Garrison , Mofan Battalion，Unit-77659：China-India Border; and the Milin 4th Independent Battalion (Nanyi Township, Linzhi City, Milin County)：China-India Border.

Meanwhile, China continues to expand its strategic reach in this region and is extending its arterial communications network right up to India’s borders. China’s road and rail networks in Tibet are all dual-use strategic projects funded partially from the national defence budget. The Second Artillery, which has its own railway construction battalions, is often involved. Commenting that “high-speed rail lines are becoming a major transport force for the People’s Liberation Army”, the high-circulation, influential China Youth Daily (Zhongguo Qingnian Bao) said in January 2014 that “the Second Artillery (China’s strategic missile forces) could use the high-speed rail network to quickly deploy short-range missiles in a certain strategic direction”. Adding that the PLA has been using high-speed trains to move troops in exercises since 2009, the report said China “eventually will set up a high-speed network of eight lines extending in all directions”. Observing that a typical military train includes 16 high-speed rail cars that carry 1,100 lightly armed soldiers, the news report forecast that “with the daily improvement in China’s high-speed rail network, transferring a 100,000 person army 1,000 li [310 miles] might be possible within half a day in the future,” and that the PLA will utilise high-speed rail to project “mobile combat forces in various strategic directions.”

Official Chinese media reports have separately commented on China’s plans to extend the Lhasa-Shigatse railway. Plans call for the strategic rail-road network to radiate outwards from Lhasa to Kathmandu and further onward to Lumbini in Nepal. Survey work for the railway line from Shigatse to Kyirong on the Sino-Nepal border has been completed and construction work has already begun. Survey work is reported to be underway for extending this railway to Lumbini via Kathmandu. PLA railway engineers will be involved. PLA engineers can similarly be expected to be involved in construction of the second airport at Lumbini just across India’s border, for which a US$ 60.7 million contract has been awarded to the Northwest Civil Aviation Airport Construction Group of China. China’s military presence along India’s borders and Beijing’s involvement in India’s immediate neighbourhood will be further strengthened consequent to the award of these contracts by Nepal.

An analysis of the military exercises conducted by the PLA in the last two years, except for the recent major exercises, is revealing. It suggests that the number of exercises reported to have been conducted by the Lanzhou MR slightly exceeded those by the Chengdu MR’s Tibet Military District (TMD). During the military activities and exercises held since 2013 especially noticeable was the use of People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) aircraft and helicopters. Since November 2013, helicopters were noticed for the first time being used for regularly patrolling the borders across the Ladakh sector in the Ali MSD. Also, in December 2013 new recruits were for the first time flown by chartered civil aircraft from Kashgar to the Ali MSD with official reports publicizing that henceforth troops will travel to this region only by air and not by road. From August 2014, PLAAF aircraft of the Lanzhou MR were reported to be engaging in ‘combat confrontation’ exercises including in ‘low meteorological conditions’. Beginning April 2015, J-11 and SU-27 aircraft of the PLAAF of Lanzhou MR came to notice regularly conducting exercises. A regiment of J-11 aircraft of the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) commenced night combat training in Tibet on August 9, 2015. China's official media reported that groups of J-11 heavy fighters were seen taking off from Lhasa's Gongga airfield at twilight on August evening to engage in a ‘confrontation drill’. China's official media additionally reported that the regiment ‘has begun paying much attention to the training of air battle at night’, which has become a routine training program in its annual training plan.

China also recently flight-tested its latest Z-18 (White Heron) military transport helicopter developed by the Changhe Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) in Tibet when it broke a record by attaining an altitude of 9000 metres and flying above Mount Everest. Capable of carrying 27 passengers with a 2-man crew, the Z-18 is the second Chinese military helicopter after the Sikorsky S-70C, that can operate in the high-altitude Qinghai-Tibet Plateau.

Similarly regiments of the Second Artillery, Rocket Artillery and Armoured Brigade deployed in the Tibetan Plateau conduct regular training and ‘live-fire’ exercises under conditions of ‘informatisation’. On July 28, 2015 a Regiment of the Second Artillery conducted a live-firing exercise with "new artillery guns" at a location in the Tibet Plateau and at heights between 3700 metres and 4800 metres. The troops “prepared an environment for actual war situations” and conducted an "exercise to address the problems of Combat unit mechanical failure, electrical problems, battle damage repair, and to enhance the soldiers ability in battlefield command and also in practical use of equipments and to support the proper use of artillery. They also carried along 300 electrical equipments".

Apparently expanding the scope of the exercise, the PLA General Logistics Department (GLD) started its materials and POLs supply drill codenamed "Supply Action-2015" in the Tibet Autonomous Region on August 8, 2015. Separately, China's official news agency Xinhua reported on August 10, 2015, that the PLA Chengdu Military Area Command started a joint military drill code-named "Joint Action-2015D" in late July 2015 that entered its 'live fire' stage on August 10, 2015 "in a plateau area in southwest China's Sichuan Province". It disclosed this would be the first of five similar drills that will involve a total of more than 140,000 soldiers from over 140 PLA regiments of various types.

Continuing its emphasis on Joint Integrated Operations (JIO)’s, designed for the rapid deployment of self-contained troops equipped with heavy power to areas along the border, the PLA plans to complete more than 100 joint exercises involving over 50 army corps this year. He Qimao, head of the Joint Drill Bureau of the PLA General Staff Department's Training Department was quoted as saying that a "joint operation system" will be formed by the Chinese armed forces including army, navy, air force, artillery, armed police, intelligence, reconnaissance and electronic warfare.

The unsettled, disputed border with India, restiveness in Tibet and Tibetan areas and Beijing’s determination to appoint a person of its choice as the XIVth Dalai Lama’s reincarnation are factors that will contribute to China continuing to keep its focus on Tibet.

(The author is a former Additional Secretary in the Cabinet Secretariat, Government of India and is President of the Centre for China Analysis and Strategy.)

[Double Edge]

Capabilities apart, intent is what should worry us. Mountain divisions are not yet filled, DE.

Forget intent for now. Let's get a handle on the assets we have deployed.

Need to do an order of battle for the Indian side.

Then we can see what we have against what they got.

Op-india had a nice post for the west, don't think they've done one yet for China.

The Colonel is saying India lacks at propaganda, which is 100% true.

They get to target us in English. How do we target them back ? chinese medium or what.

Taking a cue from various Indian media orgs, they seem to get a raise out of the CCP.

[Wonderful Plans]

LOL, just standing there, 3000 on each side, not moving, staring at each other, wondering which partner they are going to dance with.

Seriously though, if China and India got into a huge war and not some mini skirmish, India would have a lot of global support and if needed troop support from many nations in the west. India is huge like China with size and population, so, if it went deep on either side it would be a bloody bloody mess.

[Oracle]

Indian, Chinese troops clash near Naku La in Sikkim sector

Netizens in India, Nepal troll Beijing after 'fake' claims on Mt Everest

So they have set their eyes on Everest now. Another year, and some CPC official will pull an ancient map from his a$$ that shows Nepal as part of China in 0000 B.C.

[Double Edge]

Indian, Chinese troops clash near Naku La in Sikkim sector

Fist fights is more than happened at Doklam. Also i'm not aware of any scuffles occurring in the Sikkim sector before. Are you ?

Netizens in India, Nepal troll Beijing after 'fake' claims on Mt Everest

So they have set their eyes on Everest now. Another year, and some CPC official will pull an ancient map from his a$$ that shows Nepal as part of China in 0000 B.C.

Curious isn't it when recently the Nepalis decided that China would be a better friend to them than India.

The experts are more concerned about the installation of 5G network at the Everest.

Srikant Kondapalli said, "However, now they have mounted 5G at their side of the Everest, it is a controversial move as they can beam through the Himalayan range, there is a military component in 5G network, it is mounted 8000 metres above the sea level. They can snoop in India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, post-Dalai Lama they will have leverage with this technology at the Himalayas."

I have no idea what he means here...what is this military component in 5G he is referring to ?

The penetration of 5G is total garbage, it requires repeaters at shorter intervals than 2G.

Getting an antenna network up that high means better line of sight at longer ranges. When it isn't raining ... rain can stop 5G

Snooping into India & Myanmar of all places from Everest , huh ??

[Oracle]

Several soldiers injured in clashes in Ladakh & Sikkim as border tensions flare up between India and China

[Double Edge]

We're not taking it : )

“Friction was brewing in the sector since April 27, which finally led to the clash in the disputed `Finger 5’ (mountainous spur) on May 5-6. The immediate face-off was later resolved after a meeting between the Brigadier-level sector commanders. The rival troops are now on their respective sides but tensions are high. Top Northern Army Command officers have visited the area to review the situation,” said a source.

The second clash took place at an altitude of over 5,000-metre in the Naku La sector in north Sikkim, in which over a dozen Indian and Chinese soldiers were injured in the physical brawl and stone-pelting, on Saturday afternoon.

The tense stand-off in this incident was triggered after Indian soldiers blocked an “aggressive” Chinese patrol in the area, which is ahead of Muguthang. Both sides initially rushed additional troops to the site but they later disengaged after a dialogue between the local commanders.

Unlike the Line of Control with Pakistan, where fierce cross-border firing duels is the norm, it is actually a battle of nerves along the LAC with China in the shape of troop face-offs and transgressions without a shot being fired. There are 23 “disputed and sensitive areas” identified along the LAC, where rival troops often resort to aggressive patrolling to lay claim to disputed territories.

Need to identify those 23 areas

Ladakh & Sikkim are only two areas where we have a military advantage over them in terms of terrain.

You'd think they'd try in areas where they had an advantage.

I some times wonder whether there is any connection between what happens on the eastern side with action on the western side.

If it spikes in the west do we see corresponding aggressive patrols in the east.

[Oracle]

Fist fights is more than happened at Doklam. Also i'm not aware of any scuffles occurring in the Sikkim sector before. Are you ?

Nope, not that I remember one. These thing keeps happening, nothing to worry about.

Curious isn't it when recently the Nepalis decided that China would be a better friend to them than India.

Communism is a disease.

I have no idea what he means here...what is this military component in 5G he is referring to ?

The penetration of 5G is total garbage, it requires repeaters at shorter intervals than 2G.

Getting an antenna network up that high means better line of sight at longer ranges. When it isn't raining ... rain can stop 5G

Snooping into India & Myanmar of all places from Everest , huh ??

In the year 0000 B.C., Mt. Everest was Chinese. PRC is right in re-claiming what is rightfully theirs. Let the Gurkhas and the Hans fight it out. All we do is send expeditions there, so sit tight and enjoy the show.

We're not taking it : )

Need to identify those 23 areas

Ladakh & Sikkim are only two areas where we have a military advantage over them in terms of terrain.

You'd think they'd try in areas where they had an advantage.

Arunachal too, we have advantage in most areas.

I some times wonder whether there is any connection between what happens on the eastern side with action on the western side.

If it spikes in the west do we see corresponding aggressive patrols in the east.

Could be. But, the communists need to maintain some semblance of sensitivity at home, particularly when they are getting a bad press for Covid-19. Hence this transgressions to prop up nationalistic fervour.

Whatever be the case, PRC is not getting an inch of land where even a blade of grass doesn't grow.

Where is the Colonel? Been days since he was online. I hope he is enjoying his fishing trips. :D

[Oracle]

Post border clashes, China says troops committed to peace

Indo-China border clashes remind me of dog's marking their territory with urine. :D

[Double Edge]

Could be. But, the communists need to maintain some semblance of sensitivity at home, particularly when they are getting a bad press for Covid-19. Hence this transgressions to prop up nationalistic fervour.

I think this is it, just aggressive posturing with every one.

Where is the Colonel? Been days since he was online. I hope he is enjoying his fishing trips. :D

Been a few weeks now

Post border clashes, China says troops committed to peace

This bit by the Chinese FO spokesman

"Now the most pressing issue for the international community is solidarity and cooperation against COVID-19. We shouldn't allow any politicisation or stigmatisation in a bid to create more differences or confrontation," he said.

How to interpret it ? A warning to India not to join the "blame China" bandwagon ?

[Oracle]

How to interpret it ? A warning to India not to join the "blame China" bandwagon ?

Yes.

Tensions remain high in Ladakh, as India braces for 'hot summer' along border with China

[Double Edge]

Yes.

I doubt it has or will have anything to do with our silence so far. That silence i attribute to South block waiting to see if anything tangible comes out of the "blame China" rhetoric or whether it remains just rhetoric. We're not saying anything until there is more clarity. Quite frankly if they're going to pressurise us then we always have an option.

On the other hand it might have nothing to do with "blame China" and everything to do with signalling to the new Indian Army chief.

He has made it clear that each side intrudes on the other. We're not going to make a big song & dance about transgressions any more. So they perceive us as becoming more aggressive than previously.

Tensions remain high in Ladakh, as India braces for 'hot summer' along border with China

But what has come as a surprise is PLA’s assertiveness in some “new areas” like Naku La in north Sikkim this year. Located ahead of Muguthang at an altitude of around 17,000-feet, Naku La was the site of the second violent brawl between around 150 Indian and Chinese soldiers on May 9, which also left several injured on either side.

Exactly it was a surprise since we did a trade back in 2003, Sikkim for Indian recognition of Tibet with Vajpayee.

Naku La does not figure in the 23 “disputed and sensitive areas” that witness frequent transgressions and troop face-offs. Pangong Tso figures high on the list, with the other areas in Ladakh being Trig Heights, Demchok, Dumchele, Chumar and Spanggur Gap.

In Arunachal, the flashpoints are Namkha Chu, Sumdorong Chu, Asaphila, Dichu, Yangtse and the so-called “Fish Tail-I and II” areas in Dibang Valley. In the middle sector, in turn, the disputed areas include Barahoti, Kaurik and Shipki La.

ok, so we're getting the list slowly

Western Sector
1) Ladakh, Pangong Tso
2) Ladakh, Trig Heights
3) Ladakh, Demchok
4) Ladakh, Dumchele
5) Ladakh, Chumar
6) Ladakh, Spanggur Gap

Middle Sector
7) UT, Barahoti
8) HP, Kaurik
9) HP, Shipki La

Eastern Sector
10) AP, Namka Chu
11) AP, Sumdurong Chu
12) AP, Asaphila
13) AP, Dichu
14) AP, Yangtse
15) AP, Dibang Valley, Fish tail-I
16) AP, Dibang Valley, Fish tail-II

[Double Edge]

On the other hand it might have nothing to do with "blame China" and everything to do with signalling to the new Indian Army chief.

Let's pursue this angle and see if any patterns come out

General Bikram Singh - Jun 01 2012 - Jul 31 2014
On Apr 15 2013 we get the DBO incident
This is then followed by the Chumar standoff that went from Apr - May 2013

General Dalbir Singh Suhag - Aug 01 2014 - Dec 31 2016
On Sept 10 2014, the Demchok standoff began and went on until Sept 27. This occurred when Xi was in India and by Sept 18 had signed 12 deals with India

General Bipin Rawat - Dec 31 2016 - Dec 31 2019
On Jun 16 2017 we got Doklam

General Manoj Mukund Naravane - Dec 31 2019 - incumbent
He is sitting his test now.

So we see a pattern where the incumbent and past three Indian Army chiefs all get one China test within a year of assuming their post. And in Gen. Suhag's case within a month. All happened under XJP

Could it be as simple as that ? these mandarins ain't too difficult to figure out then.

General Vijay Kumar Singh - Apr 01 2010 - May 31 2012

VK didn't get the China test from what i can tell. HJT was in charge then.

The same China test has been given to US presidents since George W Bush, Obama got his.

Trump gave China the US test instead. NK : )

Time we started thinking about giving each new PLA commander of the western sector his India test : )