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Thread: Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

  1. #601
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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  3. #603
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Divine help needed. India China border talks will take place for the first time in Sichuan at Mount Qingcheng, birthplace of Taoism (& recently the India China Yoga Taichi festival)

    India, China continue to look for the elusive solution to the border question | HT | Nov 23 2018

    One reason for the importance of the talks is that over the years they have evolved to include discussions between the SRs on a range of issues.

    The evolution of the talks was mentioned by former Chinese State Councillor and long-time SR, Dai Bingguo in his memoir last year.

    “I said the last 10 years is a decade that the China India boundary question SR mechanism went from being established to developing, this mechanism has become a high-level political channel and to a certain degree a strategic dialogue,” he wrote.

    “China hopes that the SR will exchange in-depth views on border issues, bilateral relations and international and regional issues of common concerns in a friendly atmosphere so as to push forward Sino-India relations along the track of sound and stable development,” the foreign ministry told HT in an emailed statement on Friday.

    The SRs are likely to discuss the security environment in the region and beyond especially in Afghanistan.

    The officials will likely review the progress of the ongoing India-China-Afghanistan project focussed on training Afghan diplomats.

    As Dai mentions in his book, it is also an occasion for top bureaucrats to convey their leader’s message to their counterparts; Dai in his 15 talks as SR says he conveyed five messages from the Chinese leadership to his Indian counterpart.

  4. #604
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Check out the comments section. :D
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  5. #605
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    We need to build our own missiles

    India, China and the INF Treaty | IE | Oct 30 2018

    China has dramatically expanded its missile arsenal in the last three decades. According to American officials, nearly 90 per cent of China’s vast missile armoury — estimated at around 2,000 rockets — is in the intermediate range and would be illegal if Beijing were to be a part of the INF treaty.

    Although the US cites Russian violations of the INF treaty as the immediate cause for the withdrawal, coping with China’s massive rocket force appears to be the more important reason for the decision. Trump’s national security adviser, John Bolton, has long argued that even without the alleged Russian violations, the INF treaty was a bad idea since it left China and North Korea free to undermine the security of the US and its allies in Asia.

    Here is the problem: The expansive Chinese land-based intermediate range missile forces threaten the American naval ships deployed in the Western Pacific and target US military bases in Japan. The vulnerability of American military presence in the Pacific to Chinese missiles, in turn, undermines the credibility of American security commitment to its Asian allies.

    The US military leadership has long sought to lift the limitations imposed by the INF treaty on US missile forces in Asia. In announcing the intent to withdraw, Trump said the only way to sustain the treaty is for Russia to stop the violations and China to join the INF treaty. Many arms control activists have long called for a genuinely universal INF treaty — that is all countries will give up intermediate range missiles.

    China has already rejected the proposition. It has always refused to join the US-Russian arms control agreements. India too will have little interest in joining a treaty that would take away its current nuclear deterrent in the form of medium-range Agni missiles.

    India’s problem is less with the arms control diplomacy than the nature of its missile programme. While it has no reason to shed tears for the INF treaty, it will have to seriously examine the implications of the next steps by the major powers. If the US deploys a new INF in Asia, to enhance its capacity to deter China, Beijing is bound to react. The focus of a potential new arms race appears to be less on traditional nuclear armed missiles, but precise hypersonic missiles (which travel at least five times the speed of sound) equipped with conventional warheads. Moscow and Beijing have already invested in the development of hypersonic systems.

    India too has an effort underway on hypersonic missiles — part indigenous and part in collaboration with Russia to build on the supersonic Brahmos missiles that travel more than twice as fast as sound. But as the US conflict with Russia deepens, Delhi’s partnership with Moscow on advanced military systems will come under increasing scrutiny and pressure. It would be right to assume that the recent controversy over the acquisition of S-400 from Russia is just the beginning of a trend. Meanwhile, Russia’s tightening military embrace with China also casts a shadow over defence ties between Delhi and Moscow.

    Delhi, then, will have to think long and hard about its missile programme by focusing on the urgent need to ramp up the domestic effort as well as diversify its international collaboration on hypersonic weapons. India needs a significant force of hypersonic missiles to better control escalation to the nuclear level if there is another Doklam-like military confrontation with China. Delhi will also have to cope with the inevitable proliferation of hypersonic systems in its neighbourhood.
    Doval said the same thing at a talk back in 2010.

  6. #606
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Let's call this the Wuhan effect

    China issues flood alert in Brahmaputra | IE | Aug 30 2018

    China began sharing data from May 15, while it started sharing data for the Sutlej river from June 1. The sharing of data came after the two sides held talks over the issue in March this year. The data is shared twice daily until October this year. Last year, China had said that the hydrological gathering sites were washed away due to floods. It coincided with the 73-day Doklam stand-off that took place during the peak monsoon period.
    Presumably this is why we go nothing last year, hmm....

    China again alerts India about possible floods in Brahmaputra | IE | Oct 31 2018

    For the second time in a fortnight, China has alerted India of a possible flood-like situation in the Brahmaputra river in Arunachal Pradesh after a landslide blocked water upstream in Tibet, a senior Water Resources Ministry official said on Wednesday.

    The alert of a landslide and subsequent formation of an artificial lake was informed to India late Monday evening separately through diplomatic channels and the mechanism under which China shares hydrological data with Brahmaputra, the official added.
    When the natural dam suddenly breaks there will be floods downstream

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    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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  8. #608
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Most likely campaigning for the general elections.

  9. #609
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Most likely campaigning for the general elections.
    + projects worth almost a billion USD announced.

    Thinking of starting a propaganda portal where-in we can talk of building homes, bridges, all-weather roads etc for the Tibetans & the Uighurs, well, after those ethnic, persecuted and repressed people snatch their land from the Hans. And we chip in with some covert help too.
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  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    + projects worth almost a billion USD announced.

    Thinking of starting a propaganda portal where-in we can talk of building homes, bridges, all-weather roads etc for the Tibetans & the Uighurs, well, after those ethnic, persecuted and repressed people snatch their land from the Hans. And we chip in with some covert help too.
    Not a good idea.

    And then Beijing does the same with the Kashmiris and Nagas. Asian insurgencies are already annoying and confusing, there's no need to add more knots to the problem.

  11. #611
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
    Not a good idea.

    And then Beijing does the same with the Kashmiris and Nagas. Asian insurgencies are already annoying and confusing, there's no need to add more knots to the problem.
    You don't know?

    China has been doing the same in India's north-east since our independence, with Nagas, the Manipuris, Mizos, Hrangkhols, Assamese etc. Pak with IndianPunjab and Kashmir and also with the NE rebel groups. They are still doing it. National interests at play. Who can undermine another and grow. Both China and Pak tango together, been on it for decades.

    Look at Pakistan. It's a different case altogether, and one needs to go back and study the partition of the sub-continent and the subsequent developments in Pak to understand it better. It begs aid, both civilian and military for its survival. Basket-case land of suicide jihadis. Now take China. A civilization as old as ours, but one that is rooted in deep insecurity. They bully, we stare them down. This is the geo-political truth as of now in our part of Asia. It's not at all annoying or confusing, if one knows history, the animosity, and the deep desire for revenge.

    China sits on 1/3rd of Kashmir, which they stole. A good idea would be to bomb the hell out of Pak and China. But there are limitations. While we can crush Pak anytime we want, we would want the next war with China to reach its decisive end (it's 1-1 for now), so we're preparing for that. China and Pakistan has done what they could on our land, there's no moving forward for them. They can infiltrate as many terrorists as they want, we will kill them all. Target practice, baby!
    Last edited by Oracle; 14 Feb 19, at 13:33.
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  12. #612
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
    Not a good idea.

    And then Beijing does the same with the Kashmiris and Nagas. Asian insurgencies are already annoying and confusing, there's no need to add more knots to the problem.
    So long as its just talk i suppose no harm. As for active support the army chief is on record stating we don't foment instability in the region.

    AFAIK that policy has held since day 1 though we get accused by the neighbours all the time.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    So long as its just talk i suppose no harm. As for active support the army chief is on record stating we don't foment instability in the region.

    AFAIK that policy has held since day 1 though we get accused by the neighbours all the time.
    What has talks given us? The government should do everything in its power to create troubles for both these authoritarian regimes. These 2 countries are anathema to peace in south asia.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  14. #614
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    What has talks given us? The government should do everything in its power to create troubles for both these authoritarian regimes. These 2 countries are anathema to peace in south asia.
    Am referring to what you said here....

    Thinking of starting a propaganda portal where-in we can talk of building homes, bridges, all-weather roads etc

  15. #615
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    ^ I was serious. Counter propaganda with propaganda. Who's going to stop me from creating a website and giving it back to these 2 fake regimes. Terrorist State of Pakistan? Communist China? Or closet communist sympathisers?
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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