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  • #76
    Heavy arty was destroyed/captured separately.While abn had support.At Kiev,for example,they had been reinforced by AT and arty units.
    Last edited by Mihais; 06 Jul 17,, 05:20.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    • #77
      Originally posted by zraver View Post
      No becuase they lacked the support that other infantry formations had. They lacked almost all heavy weapons larger than small mortars and had no organic transport on the ground. The Corps command had 18 76mm guns and 18 82mm mortars, each brigade had 6 guns and 6 mortars for a total strength of 36 guns and 36 mortars to support 10,000 men. In contrast a rifle division had 188 mortars and 44 guns, some of 122mm. Also factor in the much reduced supplies of ammunition an airborne unit had in comparison to a rifle division. Artillery ammo is heavy when it has to be transported by 1930's technology radial engined aircraft, it is also in great demand when the bleeding starts and quickly depleted.

      Western units suffered the same problems (Arnhem). The shining light of paratroopers resisting heavy units is often cited as Bastogne, but at Bastogne the 101st was backed by an armed divisions CCB. This added a lot of fire power including a full battalion of 105mm guns
      Regardless of support artillery and supplies they were still being used as light infantry..badly used. But understandable due to the front collapsing in 41

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
        Getting soft in your old age Buck. I like to make the new folk work for it just a bit. ;-)
        Are we talking real work or sat at a desk paper shuffling?Coz if its the latter I'll leave you dead in the water..

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Toby View Post
          Are we talking real work or sat at a desk paper shuffling?Coz if its the latter I'll leave you dead in the water..
          I'll bet I shuffle more paper most days than you do in a week, though probably in a different way. Would have physically handled hundreds of pieces today alone. :-)
          sigpic

          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Toby View Post
            Regardless of support artillery and supplies they were still being used as light infantry..badly used. But understandable due to the front collapsing in 41
            They were light infantry...

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
              Getting soft in your old age Buck. I like to make the new folk work for it just a bit. ;-)
              Since I became a docent I tend to be more helpful and less interested in finding chew toys....
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                Since I became a docent I tend to be more helpful and less interested in finding chew toys....
                Thats some serious Yoda shit man. There is not try, only do or do not!
                sigpic

                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                  I'll bet I shuffle more paper most days than you do in a week, though probably in a different way. Would have physically handled hundreds of pieces today alone. :-)
                  lol, I bet! The only paper work that I get to shuffle usually has a total at the bottom right hand corner intended for a customer that suddenly, mysteriously has disappeared.....

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    Until the late 1930s their land forces were better than the Germans. Better tanks in larger numbers and a land warfare doctrine that was arguably superior to what Germany had. From about 1943 onwards they were also better. Unfortunately its impossible to convey that to people who have had their heads filled by several generations of authors who treated the Germans as supermen and Russians as crude peasants who by some magical accident developed some really good tanks. Some attitudes die incredibly hard it seems.

                    The origin of this discussion was the idea that everyone else had to 'catch up' to the Germans. I have simply been pointing out that the Russians were ahead of the Germans when it came to land warfare doctrines and probably influenced the Germans more than the Germans influenced them. I've spelled all this out in quite sufficient detail for you to put the pieces together if you choose. If you can be bothered to read & comprehend that then I'm happy to have a discussion. If you want to continue to throw off misrepresentations and content free one liners then there is no point.
                    Well of course everybody had to catch up the the German army. The Germans were first to actually implement their doctrine on the battlefield. How can you possibly question that?

                    The Soviets may have had some ideas about land warfare doctrine but they were no where near the level the Germans were at. To even suggest the Soviets were near to or on par with ze Germans is silly. To even begin to have a modern armored doctrine they'd need to have radios in their tanks.

                    There is absolutely nothing about the Soviet army of World War 2 that is special. It was a crude agricultural peasant army. Nothing good comes from Communism.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                      Nothing good comes from Communism.
                      Not much good has been coming from Capitalism recently either or have you not been paying attention?

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                        Well of course everybody had to catch up the the German army. The Germans were first to actually implement their doctrine on the battlefield. How can you possibly question that?

                        The Soviets may have had some ideas about land warfare doctrine but they were no where near the level the Germans were at. To even suggest the Soviets were near to or on par with ze Germans is silly. To even begin to have a modern armored doctrine they'd need to have radios in their tanks.

                        There is absolutely nothing about the Soviet army of World War 2 that is special. It was a crude agricultural peasant army. Nothing good comes from Communism.


                        Khalhin Gol.Did anyone even checked on the map where is that?
                        Those who know don't speak
                        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          They were light infantry...
                          Correct!

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                            Khalhin Gol.Did anyone even checked on the map where is that?
                            The Mongolian border conflict....Hardly comparable though eh? The Japanese tanks were even worse than the Italian ones and there weren't that many of them. Another reason Japan stayed out of the Soviet Unions way during WW2

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Toby View Post
                              Not much good has been coming from Capitalism recently either or have you not been paying attention?
                              I agree. And it's a direct result of western governments adopting socialist policy and the coinciding growth of state control. With western countries running huge deficits the economic costs of socialist thinking and state control have been put off for the next generation.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                                Nothing good comes from Communism.
                                So this isn't about facts & knowledge, its about ideology. Explains the quality of your posts. Ideology is the enemy of good history, and this discussion is a historical one. You can't be educated because you don't want to be educated.

                                I'll reserve my efforts for people who are willing & able to learn.
                                sigpic

                                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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