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Thread: Fall of France

  1. #511
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    Only in set piece battles against entrenched forces. You are seriously over-estimating Japanese artillery.
    isn't a siege the definition of a set piece battle against entrenched forces?

    You're missing the point. The Koreans don't have to overrun the Japanese positions. They just have to cut it off. Could the Japanese have stopped the PVA's 2nd and 3rd Offensives?

    Come to think of it, how would the IJA stop 200,000 Koreans armed with Chinese artillery storming over the Yalu using Mongol/PVA maneuver?
    i don't know if the PVA is the correct analogy to use here. yeah, the japanese would probably be beaten against a battle-hardened force that had a lot of US training and equipment and even more Soviet training and equipment.

    but a 200K KPA new to combat outside of small unit actions, doing a hostile river crossing?

    i can see guerrilla warfare but the idea that Korean guerrillas are going to assemble a maneuver army...i mean, the VC couldn't and didn't do that, it took regular units of the North to beat the Americans and the South Vietnamese.

    i understand the Japanese are essentially a WW1 army but for all that, they were good enough to essentially bleed the KMT dry even after the KMT got enormous amounts of US monies and supplies. can't see Koreans posing half the difficulties the Chinese posed.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    isn't a siege the definition of a set piece battle against entrenched forces?
    That was the Japanese doing the siege, not in a battle of maneuver. They could not bring their artillery to bear on the Changsha envelopments. Come to think of it, the IJA never used creeping barrage nor reccee by fire. When it comes to combined arms, they sucked.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i don't know if the PVA is the correct analogy to use here. yeah, the japanese would probably be beaten against a battle-hardened force that had a lot of US training and equipment and even more Soviet training and equipment.
    Battle hardened in 1930-40 Asia meant experienced generals. Looking at WWII Asian casualties, you will be hard pressed to find first contact regiments that remained intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    but a 200K KPA new to combat outside of small unit actions,
    I don't think so. Considering the real history, more than a few Koreans would have participated in reclaiming Manchuria.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    doing a hostile river crossing?
    Easily solved and do what the PVA did. Do an unopposed river crossing. Cross at points the enemy isn't watching, ie not established roads nor bridges. Get a regiment across, established defensive points and cross the rest of your forces at your liesure. By the time the Japanese noticed, you would have superiority of position and numbers since the IJA would have to get men and material where the Koreans already have men and material superiority. Get there the firstest with the mostest.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i understand the Japanese are essentially a WW1 army but for all that, they were good enough to essentially bleed the KMT dry even after the KMT got enormous amounts of US monies and supplies. can't see Koreans posing half the difficulties the Chinese posed.
    Becuase CKS was an asshole. The NRA had enough victories during the worst of times to state that they were the equals of the IJA. CKS did not and would not exploit their victories.

  3. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    isn't a siege the definition of a set piece battle against entrenched forces?
    A siege is where the defending force is surrounded, on defensible ground, and are mostly or totally cut off from outside reinforcement and supply by the attacking force.

    A "set piece battle against entrenched forces", that's a type of pitched battle. The Battle of Kursk (1943), for example, wasn't a siege, it was a pitched battle. Both sides knew more or less what was going to happen, when, and the broad strokes of what each were up against. The Soviets simply outlasted the Germans, and the Germans withdrew due to sheer exhaustion.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 May 18, at 19:27.
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