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Thread: Fall of France

  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Doubtful,
    We've already discussed this. The Kwantung Army would have to go into Siberia with all her 25 foot infanty divisions to even have a chance against the Russian 45 divisions, leaving Korea and Manchuria empty. The Red Army just need 10 divisions to fix the Kwantung Army in place and there's nothing in between 35 Red Army divisions and Port Arthur.

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    And their one and only one answer to these tactics was the banzai charge. In fact, they've done far more bayonet training than they did marksmanship.
    not all the time. Kuribayashi and Iwo Jima come to mind, and the Japanese defense of the Philippines was decent considering what they had.

    i think i sort of exhausted their virtues right there though.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    We've already discussed this. The Kwantung Army would have to go into Siberia with all her 25 foot infanty divisions to even have a chance against the Russian 45 divisions, leaving Korea and Manchuria empty. The Red Army just need 10 divisions to fix the Kwantung Army in place and there's nothing in between 35 Red Army divisions and Port Arthur.
    The IJA doesn't need to win for the Soviet's too lose. Just a bunch of cross border raids, artillery duels and bombing attacks would fix the Soviets in place as the Panzer's rolled east.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Now that I have a chance to think about this more. No, I don't think so. The IJA was the best WWI army in WWII but it was not even close to being the best WWI army of all times. Things that we learned during WWI, overlapping fields of fire, creeping barrage, were absent for the IJA.

    And their one and only one answer to these tactics was the banzai charge. In fact, they've done far more bayonet training than they did marksmanship.
    They had the best WWI infantry. Imagine Haig having Japanese troops at the Somme or 3rd Ypres.... creeping close under cover of darkness and then yelling banzai as the barrage lifted... Imagine being the German trench divisions or counter attack divisions that would have to face that? Japan's failures in supporting arms were mainly industrial she had bodies but no Krupp.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    The IJA doesn't need to win for the Soviet's too lose. Just a bunch of cross border raids, artillery duels and bombing attacks would fix the Soviets in place as the Panzer's rolled east.
    Then, the IJA would not be the IJA. It would be the BIA under Slim. The IJA did not even think in disruption attacks. For them, it's all or nothing. Hell, even the idea of a fixing force is a Soviet idea, completely foreign and thus not worthy of Samuari study.

    Hell, the IJA doesn't even understand the concept of a proper reserve (HQ protection force). At Changsha, the Japanese keep pushing the KMT forces aside believing them to be routed when in reality, they merely yield to lure the IJA further in while exposing their HQ to attack. This happened in 1939, 1941, and 1942. It was not until 1944 that the IJA finally learned to put the reserves as a protection force for their HQ.

    To ask the IJA to do what you suggest was beyond their military education and insight.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; Today at 06:32.

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Japanese vs Soviet industry....

    Tanks and self-propelled guns production
    Soviets: 100,000+
    Japanese: 4500

    That number alone should make you think.
    Once the Soviets had moved their production east of the Urals and stopped relying as heavily on Western aid from the US/UK via the Merchant Navy. Production figures are impressive. Pity they can't use that same ingenuity to build a more diverse economy today. On the sources subject, Have you any idea where those figures come from?

  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post

    And this is the example you're setting. I pointed to you the attempted Japanese Invasion of India as an example of Japanese stupidity and nowhere close to Soviet military thought. Bill Slim didn't lose 60,000 men. He killed 60,000 Japanese when the Japanese tried to invade India.

    I point to you that they should not even have tried it since they did not have sufficent food nor munitions and was counting on capturing British stock. That is pure stupidity. I also shown you that the Soviets was well prepared with food and munitions for a million+ men operations and you still tout Japanese military superiority and then tried to explain it away that they were spent. Who cares? Only losers come up with excuses.
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  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    The figures I provided cover Japan's resource production including that from all of their historical conquests.

    The Japanese are not going to match, even remotely, no matter what they do, the quantity of materiel coming out of the Soviet Union. It goes without saying, that Japan was vastly technologically inferior as well. Japan was outclassed, outnumbered, and outmatched industrially in both of these areas vis-a-vis the Soviets during WWII.
    Apart the Outclassed bit I agree. But the context was pre 41.

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    They had the best WWI infantry.
    They had the best WWI LIGHT infantry. The IJA was lacking in mortar and medium to heavy machine gun sections.

    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Imagine Haig having Japanese troops at the Somme or 3rd Ypres.... creeping close under cover of darkness and then yelling banzai as the barrage lifted... Imagine being the German trench divisions or counter attack divisions that would have to face that? Japan's failures in supporting arms were mainly industrial she had bodies but no Krupp.
    That's the point, isn't it? I rather have WWI British artillery regiments and expertise than WWII Japanese artillery and their expertise.

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