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  • #91
    Muslim leaders in Manchester report rise in Islamophobic incidents

    Senior members of Muslim community say they have received reports of abusive behaviour since Manchester Arena attack

    Muslim leaders in Manchester have expressed concern about a number of Islamophobic incidents in the city, from verbal abuse to criminal damage to mosques.

    Senior members of the Muslim community say that they have received reports of abusive behaviour since the attack on Manchester Arena earlier this week.

    Fawzi Haffar, trustee of the Manchester Islamic Centre in Didsbury, where Salman Abedi, the Manchester Arena bomber, is understood to have prayed, said: “We are concerned about reports we are receiving about anti-Muslim acts. These are terrible anti-Muslim acts ranging from verbal abuse to acts of criminal damage to mosques in the area and outside the area. We do encourage any incidents to be reported as a hate crime.”

    Mohammed Ullah, Muslim chaplain at University of Manchester, said that he had heard reports of a Muslim girl being spat at and another Muslim person being told to “go home”. An arsonist attacked a mosque in Oldham, Greater Manchester, shortly after the atrocity.

    “We hear reports but many people are very scared to talk about the problem or they don’t want to cause a fuss,” Ullah told the Guardian. “We receive reports but I think incidents are under-reported.”

    “Islamophobic attacks have increased in the last few years exponentially,” he went on. “I tell Muslim students to report these hate incidents when they happen. Be vigilant against it and don’t allow hate to divide us.”

    Speaking outside the Didsbury mosque, Haffar sought to dispel reports that Abedi had worked at the centre, and said: “We express concern that a small section of the media are manufacturing stories and making unfounded points.”

    He also expressed his outrage at the attack, calling it a “horrific atrocity” and saying “this act of cowardice has no place in our religion or any other religion”. He encouraged anyone with information to contact the police.

    But Ullah said that Muslims should not be expected to apologise for the actions of extremists.

    “I say to Muslims you should not have to apologise for the actions of individuals,” he said. “No other community has ever been held to account like this. Let me be clear – what happened on Monday was a crime of epic proportions. It was epic, evil and one we condemn with the strongest condemnation.

    “But let’s also be clear about this – why do we then have to stand up and say: ‘we apologise’? It’s not my fault. It’s not the fault of the religion.”

    “We’re sick of having to apologise and being the first to condemn it. What more can we do? Tell me what more can we do?”

    The attack on the mosque on Villa Road, Oldham, at around 3am on Tuesday came just hours after Abedi’s bomb detonated causing chaos throughout the city. CCTV shows a man walking up to the front door and setting fire to it.

    DI Ian Harratt of GMP’s Oldham borough, said: “In the wake of the atrocities that happened at the Manchester Arena, this man thought it was acceptable to deface and set fire to a local mosque.”

    “This behaviour will not be tolerated,” he went on. “We are standing shoulder to shoulder with the community in Oldham and all the people who treasure this mosque as a place of worship.”

    Fiyaz Mughal, founder of Tell MAMA, which monitors and records Islamophobic hate crimes, said there had been a “measurable” spike in incidents targeting Muslims in last 24 hours, including verbal abuse, spitting and headscarfs being pulled from the heads of Muslim woman.

    He said: “After the major terrorist incident we have seen a measurable spike in anti-Muslim hate incidents coming into Tell MAMA.

    “The pattern has been followed in this case, with a time lag and then a measurable spike of hate incidents. These range from general street level abuse to online hate and threats and the Oldham mosque case of arson after Manchester. So there is a clear measurable spike.”

    Mughal said there was not as dramatic a spike after the Westminster attack in March that claimed the lives of five people, including a police officer.

    He said: “The reality is that each terrorist attack is unique in the impacts that it causes. The Westminster terrorist attack, we assumed, would cause a spike in anti-Muslim hate incidents and it did not to any major level. The spike was small and clearly, in relation to anti-Muslim hate incidents, the impact was low.

    “Therefore, who is attacked through terrorism seems to be related to how much of a blowback effect there will be against communities and Muslims, if a member of the community is the perpetrator. So each situation is unique, but Manchester clearly affects us all given that innocent young children and their parents were targeted.”

    Comment


    • #92
      Various images released by New york times

      This one appears to show whats left of the detonator

      Click image for larger version

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      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Toby View Post
        Muslim leaders in Manchester report rise in Islamophobic incidents

        Senior members of Muslim community say they have received reports of abusive behaviour since Manchester Arena attack

        Muslim leaders in Manchester have expressed concern about a number of Islamophobic incidents in the city, from verbal abuse to criminal damage to mosques.

        Senior members of the Muslim community say that they have received reports of abusive behaviour since the attack on Manchester Arena earlier this week.

        Fawzi Haffar, trustee of the Manchester Islamic Centre in Didsbury, where Salman Abedi, the Manchester Arena bomber, is understood to have prayed, said: “We are concerned about reports we are receiving about anti-Muslim acts. These are terrible anti-Muslim acts ranging from verbal abuse to acts of criminal damage to mosques in the area and outside the area. We do encourage any incidents to be reported as a hate crime.”

        Mohammed Ullah, Muslim chaplain at University of Manchester, said that he had heard reports of a Muslim girl being spat at and another Muslim person being told to “go home”. An arsonist attacked a mosque in Oldham, Greater Manchester, shortly after the atrocity.

        “We hear reports but many people are very scared to talk about the problem or they don’t want to cause a fuss,” Ullah told the Guardian. “We receive reports but I think incidents are under-reported.”

        “Islamophobic attacks have increased in the last few years exponentially,” he went on. “I tell Muslim students to report these hate incidents when they happen. Be vigilant against it and don’t allow hate to divide us.”

        Speaking outside the Didsbury mosque, Haffar sought to dispel reports that Abedi had worked at the centre, and said: “We express concern that a small section of the media are manufacturing stories and making unfounded points.”

        He also expressed his outrage at the attack, calling it a “horrific atrocity” and saying “this act of cowardice has no place in our religion or any other religion”. He encouraged anyone with information to contact the police.

        But Ullah said that Muslims should not be expected to apologise for the actions of extremists.

        “I say to Muslims you should not have to apologise for the actions of individuals,” he said. “No other community has ever been held to account like this. Let me be clear – what happened on Monday was a crime of epic proportions. It was epic, evil and one we condemn with the strongest condemnation.

        “But let’s also be clear about this – why do we then have to stand up and say: ‘we apologise’? It’s not my fault. It’s not the fault of the religion.”

        “We’re sick of having to apologise and being the first to condemn it. What more can we do? Tell me what more can we do?”

        The attack on the mosque on Villa Road, Oldham, at around 3am on Tuesday came just hours after Abedi’s bomb detonated causing chaos throughout the city. CCTV shows a man walking up to the front door and setting fire to it.

        DI Ian Harratt of GMP’s Oldham borough, said: “In the wake of the atrocities that happened at the Manchester Arena, this man thought it was acceptable to deface and set fire to a local mosque.”

        “This behaviour will not be tolerated,” he went on. “We are standing shoulder to shoulder with the community in Oldham and all the people who treasure this mosque as a place of worship.”

        Fiyaz Mughal, founder of Tell MAMA, which monitors and records Islamophobic hate crimes, said there had been a “measurable” spike in incidents targeting Muslims in last 24 hours, including verbal abuse, spitting and headscarfs being pulled from the heads of Muslim woman.

        He said: “After the major terrorist incident we have seen a measurable spike in anti-Muslim hate incidents coming into Tell MAMA.

        “The pattern has been followed in this case, with a time lag and then a measurable spike of hate incidents. These range from general street level abuse to online hate and threats and the Oldham mosque case of arson after Manchester. So there is a clear measurable spike.”

        Mughal said there was not as dramatic a spike after the Westminster attack in March that claimed the lives of five people, including a police officer.

        He said: “The reality is that each terrorist attack is unique in the impacts that it causes. The Westminster terrorist attack, we assumed, would cause a spike in anti-Muslim hate incidents and it did not to any major level. The spike was small and clearly, in relation to anti-Muslim hate incidents, the impact was low.

        “Therefore, who is attacked through terrorism seems to be related to how much of a blowback effect there will be against communities and Muslims, if a member of the community is the perpetrator. So each situation is unique, but Manchester clearly affects us all given that innocent young children and their parents were targeted.”
        How convenient, especially the part about apologize or feeling of guilt. That is takia right there, in plain sight.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Versus View Post
          How convenient, especially the part about apologize or feeling of guilt. That is takia right there, in plain sight.
          Do you mean Taqiya? Which basically seems to mean lying is ok if you are deceiving a non-believer

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Versus View Post
            How convenient, especially the part about apologize or feeling of guilt. That is takia right there, in plain sight.
            Fuck em, until they run the Salafist-Wahabist out on a rail they share in the guilt. They don't run them out becuase A- it would cut off Arab funding and clerics don't like to be poor. B- they secretly want the spread of Salafist Islam. The Manchester cell is up to 8 members, a total of 3500 on watch lists and no one at a Mosque bothered to warn authorities.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Toby View Post
              Do you mean Taqiya? Which basically seems to mean lying is ok if you are deceiving a non-believer
              Yea, sorry for the spelling, taqiyya, tawriya, kitman and muruna tactics.
              Last edited by Versus; 25 May 17,, 03:52.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                Fuck em, until they run the Salafist-Wahabist out on a rail they share in the guilt. They don't run them out becuase A- it would cut off Arab funding and clerics don't like to be poor. B- they secretly want the spread of Salafist Islam. The Manchester cell is up to 8 members, a total of 3500 on watch lists and no one at a Mosque bothered to warn authorities.
                Nothing out of the ordinary.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by snapper View Post
                  How many a week/month on average?
                  2017 Has Seen a Terror Attack Attempted in Europe Every Nine Days

                  I don't think it matters to you on ioata how often terrorists attack occurs...your content with accepting them as a way of life. Please provide me a number, or number of casulities which will cause you to change your position/view, and what your course of action your willing to take at each interval.

                  Let me paint you a picture via a qoute I've read:

                  "The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim.
                  The Orlando Shooter was Muslim.
                  The Beltway Snipers were Muslims.
                  The Fort Hood shooter was a Muslim.
                  The USS Cole bombers were Muslims.
                  The "Underwear Bomber" was a Muslim.
                  The Madrid train bombers were Muslims.
                  The Times Square bomber was a Muslim.
                  The Bali nightclub bombers were Muslims.
                  The London subway bombers were Muslims...
                  The Moscow theater attackers were Muslims.
                  The Boston Marathon bombers were Muslims.
                  The Iranian Embassy takeover was by Muslims.
                  The Pan-Am Flight#103 bombers were Muslims.
                  The Air France Entebbe hijackers were Muslims.
                  The Beirut US Embassy bombers were Muslims.
                  The Libyan US Embassy attack was by a Muslim.
                  The Buenos Aires suicide bombers were Muslims.
                  The Kenyan US Embassy bombers were Muslims.
                  The Israeli Olympic Team attackers were Muslims.
                  The Saudi Khobar Towers bombers were Muslims.
                  The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims.
                  The Beslan Russian school attackers were Muslims.
                  The Achille Lauro cruise ship attackers were Muslims.
                  The 1993 World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims.
                  The Bombay and Mumbai India attackers were Muslims.
                  The September 11th, 2001, airplane hijackers were Muslims.
                  The Palm Sunday attackers were Muslims.
                  The Sousse attacks attackers were Muslims.
                  The Saint Petersburg attackers were Muslim.
                  The Sweden Truck attackers were Muslim
                  The Nice attackers were Muslim.
                  The Brussel Bombing attacks were Muslim.
                  The Manchester Attackers were Muslim.
                  Islamic Jihad: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  ISIS : AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Al-Qaeda: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Taliban: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Hamas: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Hezbollah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Boko Haram: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Al-Nusra: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Abu Sayyaf: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Al-Badr: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Muslim Brotherhood: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Lashkar-e-Taiba: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Ansaru: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Jemaah Islamiyah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Abdullah Azzam Brigades: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
                  Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
                  Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
                  Muslims living with Christians = Problem
                  Muslims living with Jews = Problem
                  Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
                  Muslims living with Baha'is = Problem
                  Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
                  Muslims living with Atheists = Problem"


                  Originally posted by snapper View Post
                  What a great patriot you aim to be! You don't think stigmatising innocent people might actually radicalise them?
                  First off that's not my main goal. My view, if I had my way,is to throw everyone the hell out. I want Mulsims as far away from me as possible..that's my main objective...everything else is secondary. I want them GONE! Again, I wish muslims no ill will, and if I (we) can help them from afar I will, but I don't want to live in a society with them. The bottom line is muslims are incapable of living peacefully with other cultures. I don't care that 99 out of 100 are able to live in peace with me. When you take 250,000 muslims, and integrate them into another culture you end up with 2500 sociopaths running around your society, and this is how we end up with 8 year girls getting killed in a pop concert. It's not a risk any society should be willing to accept. And all the liberals/progressives like yourself should be thrown out with them because your putting people's lives at risk with your ethnomasicism.

                  Secondly, after the muslims are hell and gone, and on the other side of the world, then, and only them would I put my energy into preventing radicalisation of Muslims. Muslims gets pissed off at a cartoon. Why would I worry about radicalising them by kicking them out of my country which will end up saving my neck? The only thing I worry about being safe.

                  Third, Islamic idealogy is strife with tenants that lead to radicalization. Islam needs a reclamation like Chistianity had after after the Spanish Inquisition, and until that happens any chance of preventing radicalization is impossible, no matter what course of action western civilation takes Islam will continue to radcalize it's muslims followers therefore the only real solution is to kick them the hell out.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by zraver View Post
                    Fuck em, until they run the Salafist-Wahabist out on a rail they share in the guilt. They don't run them out becuase A- it would cut off Arab funding and clerics don't like to be poor. B- they secretly want the spread of Salafist Islam. The Manchester cell is up to 8 members, a total of 3500 on watch lists and no one at a Mosque bothered to warn authorities.
                    Hmmm. Not disagreeing with you but what should we say about a country which signs $100 billion arms deals with the fountainhead of Salafi-Wahhabi Islam and the major reason for its spread all across the world? Do they share in the guilt as well?
                    Last edited by Firestorm; 25 May 17,, 05:03.

                    Comment


                    • Patrick Cockburn on point.

                      Manchester attack: It is pious and inaccurate to say Salman Abedi's actions had 'nothing to do with Islam'

                      In the wake of the massacre in Manchester, people rightly warn against blaming the entire Muslim community in Britain and the world. Certainly one of the aims of those who carry out such atrocities is to provoke the communal punishment of all Muslims, thereby alienating a portion of them who will then become open to recruitment by Isis and al-Qaeda clones.

                      This approach of not blaming Muslims in general but targeting “radicalisation” or simply “evil” may appear sensible and moderate, but in practice it makes the motivation of the killers in Manchester or the Bataclan theatre in Paris in 2015 appear vaguer and less identifiable than it really is. Such generalities have the unfortunate effect of preventing people pointing an accusing finger at the variant of Islam which certainly is responsible for preparing the soil for the beliefs and actions likely to have inspired the suicide bomber Salman Abedi.

                      The ultimate inspiration for such people is Wahhabism, the puritanical, fanatical and regressive type of Islam dominant in Saudi Arabia, whose ideology is close to that of al-Qaeda and Isis. This is an exclusive creed, intolerant of all who disagree with it such as secular liberals, members of other Muslim communities such as the Shia or women resisting their chattel-like status.

                      What has been termed Salafi jihadism, the core beliefs of Isis and al-Qaeda, developed out of Wahhabism, and has carried out its prejudices to what it sees as a logical and violent conclusion. Shia and Yazidis were not just heretics in the eyes of this movement, which was a sort of Islamic Khmer Rouge, but sub-humans who should be massacred or enslaved. Any woman who transgressed against repressive social mores should be savagely punished. Faith should be demonstrated by a public death of the believer, slaughtering the unbelievers, be they the 86 Shia children being evacuated by bus from their homes in Syria on 15 April or the butchery of young fans at a pop concert in Manchester on Monday night.

                      The real causes of “radicalisation” have long been known, but the government, the BBC and others seldom if ever refer to it because they do not want to offend the Saudis or be accused of anti-Islamic bias. It is much easier to say, piously but quite inaccurately, that Isis and al-Qaeda and their murderous foot soldiers “have nothing to do with Islam”. This has been the track record of US and UK governments since 9/11. They will look in any direction except Saudi Arabia when seeking the causes of terrorism. President Trump has been justly denounced and derided in the US for last Sunday accusing Iran and, in effect, the Shia community of responsibility for the wave of terrorism that has engulfed the region when it ultimately emanates from one small but immensely influential Sunni sect. One of the great cultural changes in the world over the last 50 years is the way in which Wahhabism, once an isolated splinter group, has become an increasingly dominant influence over mainstream Sunni Islam, thanks to Saudi financial support.

                      A further sign of the Salafi-jihadi impact is the choice of targets: the attacks on the Bataclan theatre in Paris in 2015, a gay night club in Florida in 2016 and the Manchester Arena this week have one thing in common. They were all frequented by young people enjoying entertainment and a lifestyle which made them an Isis or al-Qaeda target. But these are also events where the mixing of men and women or the very presence of gay people is denounced by puritan Wahhabis and Salafi jihadis alike. They both live in a cultural environment in which the demonisation of such people and activities is the norm, though their response may differ.

                      The culpability of Western governments for terrorist attacks on their own citizens is glaring but is seldom even referred to. Leaders want to have a political and commercial alliance with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf oil states. They have never held them to account for supporting a repressive and sectarian ideology which is likely to have inspired Salman Abedi. Details of his motivation may be lacking, but the target of his attack and the method of his death is classic al-Qaeda and Isis in its mode of operating.

                      The reason these two demonic organisations were able to survive and expand despite the billions – perhaps trillions – of dollars spent on “the war on terror” after 9/11 is that those responsible for stopping them deliberately missed the target and have gone on doing so. After 9/11, President Bush portrayed Iraq not Saudi Arabia as the enemy; in a re-run of history President Trump is ludicrously accusing Iran of being the source of most terrorism in the Middle East. This is the real 9/11 conspiracy, beloved of crackpots worldwide, but there is nothing secret about the deliberate blindness of British and American governments to the source of the beliefs that has inspired the massacres of which Manchester is only the latest – and certainly not the last – horrible example.
                      Last edited by Firestorm; 25 May 17,, 05:14.

                      Comment


                      • There are two basic, lets say, dimensions of this problem. First dimension comes from "master mentality" that is present in the West and its rationale that things are divided into basically three groups, useful, useless and harmful. Things like good or evil are irrelevant and that metric is no longer in use. It is rational way of looking at the world and navigate trough it. By using that rationale, it is logical to label Saudi monarch as useful, because they trade in oil and buy weapons from the West and label their support for terrorist attacks as harmful. Out of this logic, strategies are made. West is selling the weapons to the monarchy while fighting terrorism that is supported by that monarchy in the same and both of those stances are seen as useful and logically valid. However, in reality it is a cognitive dissonance at work and it destroys the very fabric of Western society and enables Islam to flourish and assures its victory over time, because Islam is a both an religion and the political ideology. It can afford to lose on the political side aka it can allow itself to be "defeated" on the military,economic,political or what ever front. It still has "spiritual" realm where it can regenerate itself and continue its advance. West, by abandoning religious stance, has no where to return as all eggs are in material and rational basket is booked for defeat at the end. That is the second dimension of the problem.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          Fuck em, until they run the Salafist-Wahabist out on a rail they share in the guilt. They don't run them out becuase A- it would cut off Arab funding and clerics don't like to be poor. B- they secretly want the spread of Salafist Islam. The Manchester cell is up to 8 members, a total of 3500 on watch lists and no one at a Mosque bothered to warn authorities.
                          So, how's that guilt over KKK church bombings coming along?
                          Any remorse over sharing a religion with Timothy McVeigh?
                          Trust me?
                          I'm an economist!

                          Comment


                          • Personally ,I don't give a flying c... about McVeigh.Or the opinion of lefties.Islam in Europe must be destroyed.Carthago delenda esse.
                            Yep,you can call me a Catonian.
                            The exceptions are few and far between,like traditional communities.Who happen to have lived for centuries with us.And who also happen to be the defeated remnants of previous phases of Islamic expansion.
                            Those who know don't speak
                            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                              Personally ,I don't give a flying c... about McVeigh.Or the opinion of lefties.Islam in Europe must be destroyed.Carthago delenda esse.
                              Yep,you can call me a Catonian.
                              The exceptions are few and far between,like traditional communities.Who happen to have lived for centuries with us.And who also happen to be the defeated remnants of previous phases of Islamic expansion.
                              Are you in the "remove kebab" mode? Yea, not to mention that targets of those terrorist attacks were in 90% civilian targets, which reveals the genocidal nature of the Jihad. Young teenage girls are not "crusaders" and the Crusade explanation doesn't float, simply because Muslims invaded first. Catalonia, wink wink.
                              Last edited by Versus; 25 May 17,, 13:11.

                              Comment


                              • 8 arrested so far , UKgovt and Police are pissed at the yanks for their disclosure of intel over the bombing WTF is going on .And are refusing to share intel with USA. The bombrs bro and Father have been arrested , in Libya ???
                                Last edited by tankie; 25 May 17,, 13:43.

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