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  • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
    If a wife is frigid, or a husband, I suppose, is emotionally distant or even frigid himself, and the other partner is dissatisfied with the frigidity or distance of the other, then the "vows" have been broken.

    I can hardly blame a man who sees another woman, if his wife is frigid. She broke her "vows". And if the husband isn't satisfying his wife, he has broken his "vows" and she can hardly be blamed for seeking satisfaction elsewhere.

    A sexless marriage in which one of the partners is deprived of their needs is not a marriage anymore.

    As far as I'm concerned, the partner responsible for not satisfying his or her partner's needs has, by inaction, made it an open marriage. The deprived partner has the right to seek satisfaction elsewhere for their needs, in these circumstances.
    Could you show me in the traditional christian wedding vows being frigid or emotionally distant are mentioned? Cause I'm not seeing it.

    I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded (husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.

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    • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
      Could you show me in the traditional christian wedding vows being frigid or emotionally distant are mentioned? Cause I'm not seeing it.
      The bolded bit:

      I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded (husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.
      The bolded bit is euphemistic, especially in keeping with the times the vows were created, and the meaning may be entirely lost on a 20th/21st century reader, but to have and to hold, means to have sex and be emotionally and physically intimate.

      That's how these things were politely referred to hundreds or even a thousand years ago. The Catholic Church circa 1050AD certainly wasn't going to refer to these things with 21st century gonzo porno language.

      I'm not surprised the meaning of to have and to hold is lost on modern people who use different words to describe sex and intimacy.

      Catholic Code of Canon Law:

      Can. 1095 The following are incapable of contracting marriage:

      1/ those who lack the sufficient use of reason;

      2/ those who sufferer from a grave defect of discretion of judgment concerning the essential matrimonial rights and duties mutually to be handed over and accepted;

      3/ those who are not able to assume the essential obligations of marriage for causes of a psychic nature.
      Can. 1101 §1. The internal consent of the mind is presumed to conform to the words and signs used in celebrating the marriage.

      §2. If, however, either or both of the parties by a positive act of the will exclude marriage itself, some essential element of marriage, or some essential property of marriage, the party contracts invalidly.
      In the event there is frigidity and non-intimacy between a husband and wife, thus excluding "some essential element" or "property of marriage", this is grounds for an annulment of a marriage, at least in the eyes of the Catholic Church.

      There might be finances and custody to sort out in civil divorce court, but the marriage is over when there is non-intimacy, if one of the partners is dissatisfied with that non-intimacy.
      Last edited by Ironduke; 23 May 18,, 13:33.
      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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      • According to the Washington Post Columbus Nova that payed Cohen $500,000 for unstated reasons; the company that is run by Andrew Intrater, a cousin of Vekselburg who is a Muscovite 'oligarch' and pal of Putin's (because you have to be to be an 'oligarch') registered a number of websites in 2016;

        These sites include Alt-right.co, Alternate-right.com, Alternate-rt.com, Alt-rite.com, and other similar combinations, which were all registered in the two days following a speech given by then candidate Hillary Clinton in August 2016 in which she excoriated the far-right movement known for its extremist, racist, anti-Semitic and sexist viewpoints. The sites are not currently operational.

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        • Chicken Little. The Chick, when got hit on the head by an acorn, scared everybody by screaming The Sky is Falling.

          The Sky is not falling, Chicken Little.
          Chimo

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          • If you have something to add to our discussion Sir other than school boy insults I will be pleased to converse. Perhaps you wish me to respond by insulting you? If so I am sorry not to entertain your whim.

            Some men are Gentlemen be they goatherds or Dukes, some women are Ladies in the same manner. I know which side I stand on.

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            • If you think that is insulting you, then you are insulting yourself. The underlying theme to all your posts is that Putin is in fact running the White House when every single one of your evidence has been proven false. You've been in fact screaming the sky is falling and when asked for evidence, you point to the acorn, ignoring the fact that it's just an acorn.

              Your evidence does not rise to the standards that WAB has established over a decade ago and more to the Chicken Little kind.
              Chimo

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              • Sir I am not trying to prove anything; merely pointing out that the denials of connections made by Columbus Nova and Renova Group by Columbus Nova itself should not be treated as ultimate "proof" that connections may exist. I point you Intrater's written statement on the Columbus Nova donation to the Trumpkin campaign where it says;

                "Renova US Management, LLC, which also does business as Columbus Nova and/or Columbus Nova Technology Partners."

                No connection? Perhaps (apart from being cousins) but I am not sure such evidence should be disregarded when judging if there are links between the two company. You accept their denial as all the evidence required which it is not. I do not accept a denial as conclusive proof nor would any court.

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                • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                  No connection? Perhaps (apart from being cousins) but I am not sure such evidence should be disregarded when judging if there are links between the two company. You accept their denial as all the evidence required which it is not. I do not accept a denial as conclusive proof nor would any court.
                  Oh hell yes! Any court would automatically accept denial as conclusive proof. It is up to the prosecution to prove a connection; not the defence to prove there is no connection.

                  You're trying to point out that the denials are evidence of guilt when there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that it is anything but legitimate.

                  Avail yourself to the concept of Innocent until Proven Guilty. The burden is ON YOU to prove a connection; not the defence to prove their innocense.
                  Chimo

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                  • No Sir, a Court has no decision until evidence is heard. A claim of innocence is not proof of innocence. Yes in a Court the presumption is rightfully innocent until proven guilty but in this Columbus Nova/Renova case you are claiming that a plea of innocence is conclusive proof of innocence as it were. It is not and as I said I am not trying to prove anything. I merely deny that a proclamation of innocence makes a company (or person) innocent beyond doubt as you said regarding Columbus Nova's denials. If this were the case there would no need for detective policemen or criminal courts at all; all would be innocent so no worry.

                    I have given you sufficient proof from Intrater's own filings "Renova US Management, LLC, which also does business as Columbus Nova and/or Columbus Nova Technology Partners." You have disproved nothing and insulted me - fine, I have been insulted better and by better men. I wish you peace.

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                    • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                      No Sir, a Court has no decision until evidence is heard. A claim of innocence is not proof of innocence. Yes in a Court the presumption is rightfully innocent until proven guilty but in this Columbus Nova/Renova case you are claiming that a plea of innocence is conclusive proof of innocence as it were. It is not and as I said I am not trying to prove anything. I merely deny that a proclamation of innocence makes a company (or person) innocent beyond doubt as you said regarding Columbus Nova's denials. If this were the case there would no need for detective policemen or criminal courts at all; all would be innocent so no worry.

                      I have given you sufficient proof from Intrater's own filings "Renova US Management, LLC, which also does business as Columbus Nova and/or Columbus Nova Technology Partners." You have disproved nothing and insulted me - fine, I have been insulted better and by better men. I wish you peace.
                      Oh for freaking sakes. I've posted links from the Columbus Nova Special Council, ie their top lawyer, who stated their filings prove no connections to Russia in hiring Cohen.

                      You're the one refusing to acknowlege US Government Documents. Sorry, Chicken Little but the sky is not falling.
                      Chimo

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                      • Yea so must be true right? Never known anyone - let alone a Muscovite oligarch's cousin - to fib. Except why did he write "Renova US Management, LLC, which also does business as Columbus Nova and/or Columbus Nova Technology Partners."? Must have been confused yes? I get it... Yea thank goodness they are not fibbing!

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                        • https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-trump/561080/

                          pretty good summarization of the open questions so far.
                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                          • BBC says Cohen got payed by Ukraine too for the meeting Poroshenko had with Trumpkin; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44215656

                            But Cohen never registered as an agent.

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                            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              the -legal- badness in the Stormy Daniels case is not the tawdry affair but all the dealings afterwards.

                              the hush money funneled through a lawyer's shell companies, with Trump lying about his role in the payment of the hush money. the same shell companies used by the lawyer to get corporation access to Trump. Daniels also said that there were attempts at physical intimidation.
                              I think it's a shame we live in a country where people feel compelled to pay people off to keep these sorts of things a secret.

                              So in the beginning, the man had an affair. So what? Who cares? I think there is something wrong and sick with a society, where people feel driven to commit actions to cover up something, that should be neither embarrassing or humiliating, to avoid it becoming other people's business, when it is none of anybody else's business at all.

                              The way I see it, as far as sex and relationships goes, America is a land where everyone lives in a glass house, and everyone throws stones. It's nobody's business what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults.

                              Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              frankly. it's the bigotry of low expectations. we EXPECT Trump the billionaire showman to engage in this type of behavior. let's flip it around-- say HRC had been sending hush payments to a male porn star via her lawyer's shell companies, what would the reaction have been then?
                              Again, I think there is something severely wrong with a society that is so judgmental and hypocritical on issues of sex and relationships, where everyone lives in glass houses and throws stones.

                              If Hillary Clinton had an affair with a male porn star, I wouldn't care one whit. Especially as her husband has had a quadruple bypass and a history of heart problems. I don't blame Mr. Clinton either in the instances where his affairs were consensual.

                              I believe that if one's wife is frigid, or the husband isn't doing whatever it is he needs to do, the vows have been broken, and if one of the partners is dissatisfied with the non-intimacy, the marriage has been unilaterally, by default, declared an open marriage by the non-intimate partner.

                              In my view, the marriage at that point is just a scrap of worthless paper, and what were husband and wife are now just roommates, strangers living together, who split some expenses, who coincidentally happened to have had some children together at some point in the past. They can either choose to sort out their financial and custody matters in civil divorce court, or, if they want, can choose to keep living together as strangers and roommates, keep separate bedrooms, and are free to see other people.

                              Nobody else in society, as far as I'm concerned, has the right to judge them or criticize them, as they are doing nothing immoral or unethical.

                              In my opinion, the marriage in instances of frigidity and non-intimacy is null and void, and becomes a putative marriage. I neither belong to or believe in any of the various religions myself, but this is even in keeping with canon law, and the vow to have and to hold, according to such institutions as the Catholic Church.

                              The children remain legitimate in the eyes of such institutions, but the marriage is void, and annulment can be granted upon request for frigidity and non-intimacy.
                              Last edited by Ironduke; 24 May 18,, 18:56.
                              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                              • It has to do with things that we want and expect from leaders. Honesty and Integrity. If Joe Blow wants to cheat on his wife, I don't care. Until he decides to run for public office. Then t is my business. If you cannot keep your vows toyourwife, how can I expect you to keep your promises to the people that elected you?

                                As you said frigid or not sexual compatible gives the individuals involved a reason to terminate the marriage. It doesn't give reason to cheat. Same as any legal contract

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