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Thread: Ex-FBI Director Mueller appointed DOJ Special Counsel

  1. #1006
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    I am in favour of impeachment (we need a similar law here) because:

    A. Mueller's report sets out many attempts of Trumpkin trying to obstruct justice. He swore an oath to uphold the law and was positively trying to subvert it. This is, as I understand it what is called an 'endeavour law' meaning that you do not need to succeed in robbing the bank (if this was the plan) but merely have tried to do so. This is a criminal offence from the highest ranked person in the land who's duty it is to uphold the law very clearly cannot be relied on to do so.

    B. Because Mueller clearly indicates this last resort in his report; "The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President's corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law."

    C. Because if Congress does not impeach it is failing in it's duty of oversight regarding a President who has clearly committed almost all of the stated qualifications; "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors". Emoluments contraventions alone would be pages of "misdemeanors."

    D. Because if Congress does not impeach him it sets a precedent and the right (and duty) may be ceded leading to worse abuse in future.

    E. Because Trumpkin is a security threat as Mr Hall made clear. Let's face it when your President would not get basic security clearance for him to control security clearances for others - as he apparently did with Kushner (which interestingly the CIA objected to) - is not in the interests of national security.

    I understand the political considerations of not impeaching; the election coming and let's talk about things that voters want... healthcare etc and am no 'progressive' nor 'democratic socialist' but Trump is a dangerous criminal seeking to subvert the law and the law must be seen be seen to be done so other future would be demagogues do not seek to imitate this sad excuse of a man.

  2. #1007
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    Grr.

  3. #1008
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    I understand the political considerations of not impeaching; the election coming and let's talk about things that voters want... healthcare etc and am no 'progressive' nor 'democratic socialist' but Trump is a dangerous criminal seeking to subvert the law and the law must be seen be seen to be done so other future would be demagogues do not seek to imitate this sad excuse of a man.
    this whole episode demonstrates the value of "shame" as a norm in democratic countries. that's how impeachment works; the political cost of supporting an embarrassing figure is too much to bear, and thus impeachment/conviction.

    what happens when partisanship imposes costs beyond that of shame? the current situation.

    Dem leadership is trying to ensure tamp down impeachment talk because they know that doing so will drive GOP voters to "defend the President", versus GOP voters recoiling from Nixon. you get a perverse scenario where trying to push the President out might very well strengthen his hand.

    if there's a silver lining to all of this, Trump demonstrates on an almost-daily basis the particular importance of certain norms, and how rickety our current structure has become. if the underlying root issue of partisanship cannot be easily solved, then at least the next President/Congress can take steps to legally enshrine previous norms or unspoken understandings.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  4. #1009
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    Has anyone seen this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f71Rasj_0JY&t=12s

    Good brief explanation of the report.

    Another one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUOsrE-XFLI
    Last edited by hboGYT; 26 Apr 19, at 12:53.

  5. #1010
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    Has anyone seen this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f71Rasj_0JY&t=12s

    Good brief explanation of the report.

  6. #1011
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    The FULL list of contacts (so far known) between the Trump campaign and and Moscow in timeline here: https://cdn.themoscowproject.org/con...cts-4.2019.pdf

  7. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    The FULL list of contacts (so far known) between the Trump campaign and and Moscow in timeline here: https://cdn.themoscowproject.org/con...cts-4.2019.pdf
    But yeah, No Collusion. No Cooperation. No Conspiracy. Nothing to see here folks, just the Trump Family consorting with America's greatest geopolitical foe, no big deal.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  8. #1013
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    I think the difference is partly between the legal requirement for conviction - beyond reasonable doubt etc - and what you do as a policy to prevent your office or department - or country - having a compromised individual working in it - let alone running it. We have cleaned alot of people out of their offices for 1/10th of Trumpkins Moscow contacts but we are at war and perhaps this also bears on things.

    There can be no doubt that Trumpkin knew of these contacts - he drafted the statement about the Trump Tower meeting from the airplane and said it was about 'adoption' which it very clearly was not so he had to know (or been told more likely) that after the Magnitsy Law was passed the Muscovites forbade future US adoptions from Muscovy, which of course hurts Muscovite orphans most but so what huh? But even saying this admitted to those who understood this and who the Muscovite lawyer was at the meeting, who had been campaigning against the Magnitsy law already it was pretty obvious that it was about getting rid of this irksome law.

    I have absolutely no doubt there was a deeper "drop sanctions for help and financial benefits" understanding even if nothing was signed in writing or said specifically to that effect. I have 0 doubt that Trumpkin knows they have dirt on him and is deeply compromised. If he get's re-elected - and why should they not do the same again? Apparently the voter registers and machines in all 50 States were attacked last time and Trumpkin's Government has done nothing to change things - I would not be surprised if he sold Alaska to Putin and pocketed the money.

  9. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I would not be surprised if he sold Alaska to Putin and pocketed the money.
    He'd sell his own blood family if it came down to it. Of course, he's also clearly suffering from early dementia, so there's that.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    But yeah, No Collusion. No Cooperation. No Conspiracy. Nothing to see here folks, just the Trump Family consorting with America's greatest geopolitical foe, no big deal.
    The 1980's called, they want their geo-political outlook back.

  11. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    The 1980's called, they want their geo-political outlook back.
    I can only hope that you're mocking Obama and his ridiculously naive response to Romney back to 2012.

    Because the alternative is that you've been in a coma the last 4-5 years and woke up just long enough to guzzle a few gallons of Trump-brand Kool-Aid (which is by far his most successful, and apparently addictive, product)
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  12. #1017
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    Never mind, Biden collusion with China. https://themarketswork.com/2018/03/1...a-connections/
    And extortion of the Ukraine. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rtO1OigwfVs

  13. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Never mind, Biden collusion with China. https://themarketswork.com/2018/03/1...a-connections/
    And extortion of the Ukraine. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rtO1OigwfVs
    Other than the usual knee-jerk deflections and "whataboutisms" that I've come to expect from Trump supporters....what exactly does this have to do with the President of the United States?

    Were you expecting me to defend Joe Biden? Have you forgotten I'm neither a liberal, nor a Democrat? Can you come up with something original (and off-script) to defend Trump?
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  14. #1019
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    With this Trump economy I am now scheduled to receive my fifth cost of living increase. I only had two during the entire eight years of O’horrible. Trump may proceed with the prosperity.

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Trump may proceed with the prosperity.
    Ah yes, self-destructive trade wars, massive tax breaks for corporations and a burning desire to bring back the beautiful coal industry of the 19th Century.

    Except that, as is pointed out time and again, it's not the President's economy.

    Both Trump and Obama are offering rival versions of: "You didn’t build that." Both are suggesting that it is the president — and government more generally — that drives America’s economic engine. They are both wrong.

    It is the American people — workers, entrepreneurs and investors — who make the American economy hum.

    Obviously, government policy matters. Good policies can encourage investment and innovation; bad policies can slow it. But no president can manage the individual choices of 325 million producers and consumers. Imbuing the president with mystical powers to manage the economy is to invite the sort of meddling that can only get in the way of American dynamism.

    The best thing that a president — any president — can do for the economy is to get out of the way and let Americans innovate and produce.

    The president who did that could really claim credit.
    But hey, you're making more money so who cares about a President who whores himself out to the Russians. Pretty amazing that you're willing to overlook that but I'd expect nothing less.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

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