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Thread: Ex-FBI Director Mueller appointed DOJ Special Counsel

  1. #961
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    So the question is, is President Pence less scary now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    So the question is, is President Pence less scary now?
    President Pence has one overriding advantage over Trump: A nodding acquaintance with reality.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    President Pence has one overriding advantage over Trump: A nodding acquaintance with reality.
    That is true however I have one major problem with him. He calls himself a Christian. In my life those that called themselves Christian have always been far from it. Two, a true Christian doesn't have to even say it for people to realize it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    That is true however I have one major problem with him. He calls himself a Christian. In my life those that called themselves Christian have always been far from it. Two, a true Christian doesn't have to even say it for people to realize it.
    I too have a major problem with Pence's pious claims of being a Christian when he obsequiously worships a moral cesspool like Trump
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    I too have a major problem with Pence's pious claims of being a Christian when he obsequiously worships a moral cesspool like Trump
    From Michelle Bachmann's recent interview on the Christian (there is that word again) Conservative Show, called Understanding These Times, she said "[Trump] is highly biblical, and I would say to your listeners, we will in all likelihood never see a more godly, biblical president again in our lifetime. So we need to be not only praying for him, we need to support him, in my opinion, in every possible way that we can." Satan is probably rolling in his grave in laughter.

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    With much anticipation, here is the redacted version of the Mueller report. I've skimmed over some of the first half but have yet to read the report in its entirety---but first impressions leave me with more questions than answers.

    https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
    Last edited by Red Team; 18 Apr 19, at 17:09.
    "Draft beer, not people."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Team View Post
    With much anticipation, here is the redacted version of the Mueller report. I've skimmed over some of the first half but have yet to read the report in its entirety---but first impressions leave me with more questions than answers.

    https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
    • The Trump Family and Organization were already in bed commercially with Russia prior to the election
    • The Trump Campaign was more than ready to jump further into bed with Russia and did so on multiple occasions to affect the election aka collusion
    • Collusion is not a crime, so no indictments could be recommended by Mueller
    • Trump was shitting his pants at the thought of a special investigation (Why is that Mr. President? Something to hide?)
    • Trump tried his damnedest to quash the investigation (Again, why?)
    • He failed because some of the people around him either had more integrity than him (which isn't saying much) or they simply didn't want to go to prison
    • Congress can still go after Trump for obstruction
    • Trump and the Trump Organization still have half a dozen (or more) investigations hunting them down like crippled gazelles.



    In other words, everything we already knew yesterday.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  8. #968
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    Have read through page 25 already. Will take awhile. Have a ways to go. So far I see:

    Russia did hack and did try to influence the election starting in March 2016. Trump playing ignorant of that to assist him still.

    Mueller didn't find enough evidence to support criminal conspiracy. Doesn't mean there might have been had he access to documents eliminated, people outside the US interviewed, and Trump interviewed. So not a ringing endorsement on no conspiracy. Collusion is an incorrect term.

    Mueller doing his job as investigator and not a Federal prosecutor. He collects all the information he can possibly collect and then sends it on to the AG to decide if there is enough evidence to move forward with charges for judge and jury. Question then becomes do we have an AG in the mold of Richardson and deputy AG Ruckelshaus or one in the mold of AG Mitchell or Solicitor Bork although Bork was going to resign after firing Richardson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    So not a ringing endorsement on no conspiracy.
    Which goes back to the point that Putin ain't anywhere close to stupid enough to let Trump know any of the details and without such, there can be no consipiracy. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink is not consipiracy, not when Trump had already openly and publically asked for emails.


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    plus there's no need to get Trump himself to assent to things when it was clear to all that his campaign was so loosely organized that any moron like Papadopoulos would eagerly start wagging his tail to get Russian-originated dirt.

    and I note the report mentions, yet again, Russian official sanction to not just hit Clinton but to actively support Trump.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    I note the report mentions, yet again, Russian official sanction to not just hit Clinton but to actively support Trump.
    It galls me to think that people believe a few 30 word twits can affect an election ... and someone is stupid enough to put serious monies into this operation.

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    It galls me to think that people believe a few 30 word twits can affect an election ... and someone is stupid enough to put serious monies into this operation.
    it's more than Twitter, it's Facebook memes, Instagram, the whole social media network.

    this is 21st century psy-ops/political warfare, and if anything it's more effective than the 20th century version, because of social media's echo chamber. people believe what they WANT to believe.

    Trump played Twitter -perfectly- to bypass all the old media fact-checkers, etc.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    this is 21st century psy-ops/political warfare, and if anything it's more effective than the 20th century version, because of social media's echo chamber. people believe what they WANT to believe.
    But these are not the undecided voters. Any new propaganda/twits/memes ain't going to change their minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    Trump played Twitter -perfectly- to bypass all the old media fact-checkers, etc.
    Precisely, the undecided will do their own fact checking which made this whole operation an expensive mess. It exposes Russian operational methods for a result that they have absolutely zero control over. Do recall that Trump and Putin both expected Clinton to win.

  14. #974
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    Seems at the very least that Mr Barr's "summary" was misleading to the point of being factually wrong.

  15. #975
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    But these are not the undecided voters. Any new propaganda/twits/memes ain't going to change their minds.
    no. there were quite a few undecided voters in the last few weeks before the election-- in 2016, 3x as many as in 2012. both candidates were unpopular.

    and the people who made up their minds at the last minute leaned heavily towards Trump.

    Precisely, the undecided will do their own fact checking which made this whole operation an expensive mess. It
    i think you give far too much credit to the undecided (or, for that matter, the decided). Russian trolls on Twitter impersonating conservative figures were re-tweeted literally millions of times, and even set up Trump rallies from their troll factory in St Petersburg!

    in any case, we're talking about the efficacy of the Russian info campaign. that shouldn't really be the main issue.

    bottom-line is that a hostile power interfered with the US election. the Republican Senate Majority leader flatly denied a WH request for a strong bipartisan statement against this during the election. the Republican candidate was aware of his campaign's on-going connections with the Russians and publicly welcomes further interference even if there was no actual coordination.

    having won the election, the new President then seeks to personally tamp down the investigation, to include trying to get his staff to openly lie to the public about the extent of his own personal involvement. which involves stuff like firing the FBI director on false grounds, pressuring his own Attorney General to resign, and ordering his WH lawyer to fire the Special Counsel...and then trying to get said lawyer to deny he ever made that order.

    and the only reason why we know the details of the Mueller Report is because the Dems won the House in 2018.
    Last edited by astralis; 19 Apr 19, at 14:48.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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