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Thread: Ex-FBI Director Mueller appointed DOJ Special Counsel

  1. #871
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    I did not ask for a link to spurious website... we all know how that can work. I asked you to name them and who the aggressor was. Are you willing to start? No? Allow me then... Hungary 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968, Gdansk 1970... but they were not on your 'definitive list of imperialist aggression' that you got off the web? Well my opinion of your historical knowledge is not improved.

    Nor apparently can you explain to me who gave you the right to declaim that Muscovy should have my home in Ukraine other than it may counter US/NATO 'imperialism' as far as I can follow. Let me make this clear to you: Ukraine is not anyone's, not if you were Justin beauty boy or sitting in the Oval Office or SACEUR, to give.

  2. #872
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    What a load of crock!

    Just going through the list, most are nothing more than cherry picking exercise and outright frabrication.

    Vietnam: Blame China and France for the separation into North and South
    Cambodia: The VC was using that country as safe haven, practically inviting the Americans to invade
    Iran-Iraq: China and Russia were feeding that inferno, not the US and Saddam started that war. Iran was busy making a fool out of Carter
    Afghanistan: Hey stupid idiot - 11 September. The fucks hit us. We hit back

    And let me get this straight? We're supposed to be afraid of Russia? Hahahahahhahahahahahahahaha! Or a Sino-Russian allaince? Hehehehahahahahahahahahahahahahaha One that doesn't exist? Hehehehehahahahehahahahahahahaha

  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    I've found nothing in your entire post worth trying to debate. You're much too riled up to even make sense now. For instance, you're suggesting that 100 Russians in Venezuela isn't a force that the US should consider worthy of acknowledging. You obviously have no understanding in the least of a direct military conflict between Russia and the US! Arrogance? And then your Stranglovian approach to nuclear war between superpowers is of course your attempt to have others join you in thinking of the unthinkable.
    Oh no, little boy. I've posted links to doctrrines written by a nuclear weapons targeteer, Stuart Slade. He explains clearly how your nuclear weapons knowledge based on a movie is nothing more than bullshit.

    As for the Canadian Forces? Did you know we were armed with nukes? 4 Bde had HONEST JOHNS and Canadian CF-104s in Europe were tasked to drop nukes on Soviet columns. 4th Brigade was VII Corps Strategic Reserves. Do you know what that means? It meant that if things were going bad, we were to cover the rest of VII Corps's retreat across the Rhine. If things were going good, we were to be the killing force to finish the enemy.

    But then again, looking all over your posts, you have nothing but a movie to base your knowledge on and could not even come up with the real history of the Cuban Missile Crisis which I have detailed from beginning to end. You've said there was a trade for Turkey's JUPITER 1s for the USSR leaving Cuba. Well, why did Kruschev lost his job then if the rest of the Politburo didn't feel the USSR lost face? You didn't even know about the KGB knowing those JUPITER 1s were nothing more than interim weapons and just as dangerous to the launch crews as to the targets.

    It is you who is offering nothing but propaganda and mouth piecing. Classic point. Canada's Kayak Armada and fearsome eskimos (The unit is called the Rangers, btw). You know so little about your own country's military that you pretend that Canada should be afraid of Russia and China. We're not. Canadian destroyers are scaring Chinese submarines in the South China Seas. Dumbass.

  4. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    bfng,



    because the way zraver is framing it, it -must- be all one or another.
    It can be both, but only if there is a unified standard.

    for instance, his insinuation is that Page/Strozk stuff was emblematic of the FBI/US intel agencies, and that this singular behavior validates the idea that these are deep-state organizations with a bias against Trump.
    Strozk, Paige, Orr, Baker, Comey, McCabe all facing criminal referrals related to the Russian investigation; but they were all part of the investigation. Thats is 6x more than the number of people in the Trump administration that ended up charged. Lynch and Clinton just got fresh referrals, Yates, Brennan and Powers are likely next. Rosenstein should not have been in charge, its a violation of DOJ rules for a prosecutor to be involved in a case he is a witness too. Wiesman is a brady cop and should never have been allowed to work in government again. We spent tens of millions of dollars and the only bad actors in government to surface were all on the investigating/instigating side... Remember also that a lot of the people used to hound Trump ere handing out immunity deals like candy to Clinton and co. Its the complete lack of a unified standard of justice that makes my views look bifurcated.

    same thing with Mueller. zraver says that he "turned a blind eye" to supposed Russian meddling with HRC (...lol).
    It is not supposed. HRC16 paid Perkins-Coie, who paid Fusion GPS who paid Steele, who paid Russians, who created stories and gave them back to Steel, who passed them back to Fusion GPS, who passed them to the DOJ and FBI. Besides being a major campaign finance law violation, its clear they were paying Russia to meddle. Now of course the Ukraine is saying pretty much the same thing. They tried to meddle on behalf of Clinton.

    given that Mueller's brief was to look at Russian interference in the election in general, the idea that Mueller turned a blind eye and that Rosenstein, hell, Mueller's -own agents- would find this acceptable, that means the ENTIRE DOJ, not just Mueller himself, is corrupt/deep-state trying to just find evidence to bring down Trump.
    Nearly identical players that cleared Clinton and handed out immunity like candy then investigated Trump, before ending up fired with criminal charges of their own.

    so the question i ask is fair. is Mueller "honorable" per Trump, or did he lead a "witch hunt"? if Mueller "just spent 2 years...studiously ignore that Russian meddling [with HRC]", how is that "honorable", and why would the President say that this type of obviously biased investigation "completely exonerated" him?
    Honorable would be Mueller stopping a when he knew there was no collusion. Honorable would not be driving Flynn into bankruptcy in order to secure a process crime conviction with no underlying predicate crime. Honorable would be not using Brady Cops or Politcal partisans. So no I don't think Mueller is honorable despite Trump saying soothing words. Mueller has done incredible damage to the foundations of this country. Without the equal application of justice we are doomed.
    Last edited by zraver; 29 Mar 19, at 14:09.

  5. #875
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    It is quite amusing to me - and possibly quite an accomplishment - that 'montgomery' has managed to unite myself and the gallant Colonel in rejecting his bs.

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    z,

    you're making my case for me. you believe the DOJ/FBI/intel agencies to be massively corrupt, agents of the political deep-state aimed at undermining President Trump. the extent of the crimes/abuses/whatever that you describe means a deep level of conspiracy.

    of course i completely disagree with this-- but that's not the point of my discussion with bfng. he thinks i'm over-exaggerating your point, but i think i've described it pretty accurately here.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    snapper,

    It is quite amusing to me - and possibly quite an accomplishment - that 'montgomery' has managed to unite myself and the gallant Colonel in rejecting his bs.
    you and the Col have the same over-arching principles; ie both of you support the West and look down on Russian-propaganda spewing trolls.

    the difference is that the Col is not an Ukrainian nationalist, lol.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    bfng,



    because the way zraver is framing it, it -must- be all one or another.

    for instance, his insinuation is that Page/Strozk stuff was emblematic of the FBI/US intel agencies, and that this singular behavior validates the idea that these are deep-state organizations with a bias against Trump.

    same thing with Mueller. zraver says that he "turned a blind eye" to supposed Russian meddling with HRC (...lol).

    given that Mueller's brief was to look at Russian interference in the election in general, the idea that Mueller turned a blind eye and that Rosenstein, hell, Mueller's -own agents- would find this acceptable, that means the ENTIRE DOJ, not just Mueller himself, is corrupt/deep-state trying to just find evidence to bring down Trump.

    or take a look at the next sentence:



    do you see any nuance there?

    so the question i ask is fair. is Mueller "honorable" per Trump, or did he lead a "witch hunt"? if Mueller "just spent 2 years...studiously ignore that Russian meddling [with HRC]", how is that "honorable", and why would the President say that this type of obviously biased investigation "completely exonerated" him?
    oh i'm not attacking or objecting to the question or the way it is framed or asked, just more curious than anything if it was intentional or just the way it came out.

  9. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    the difference is that the Col is not an Ukrainian nationalist, lol.
    Neither am I. I am a 'jagiellonian minded Anglo Polish Ukrainian', born in France to Polish parents, educated in the UK. I want a new 'Commonwealth' or 'intermarium'. I do what I can to help Ukraine because a. my ancestral family home is now in Ukraine (thanks to Stalin and Churchill), which we shall not leave again without fighting and b. as Piłsudski said in 1920 "There can be no independent Poland without an independent Ukraine" - to which I would add the same regarding the Baltic states and Belarus. I saw it coming from 2008 also weighs into it and it just seems redundant to twiddle my thumbs in the UK or Poland when I can help against the common enemy. 'Nationalism' of any kind is the least of my motives.

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    z,

    you're making my case for me. you believe the DOJ/FBI/intel agencies to be massively corrupt, agents of the political deep-state aimed at undermining President Trump. the extent of the crimes/abuses/whatever that you describe means a deep level of conspiracy.

    of course i completely disagree with this-- but that's not the point of my discussion with bfng. he thinks i'm over-exaggerating your point, but i think i've described it pretty accurately here.
    that wasnt my contention, it was more one of limiting, shifting, or directing the conversation.

    while i took Zravers generalizations to be just that, generalizations covering a range of specific people within those organizations, i took your specific 'generalization' to be all or nothing, meaning those organization as a whole, encompassing all the personal, not.

    as i said, the question was not meant to attack or object to the question or the wording of it.

  11. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I did not ask for a link to spurious website... we all know how that can work. I asked you to name them and who the aggressor was. Are you willing to start? No? Allow me then... Hungary 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968, Gdansk 1970... but they were not on your 'definitive list of imperialist aggression' that you got off the web? Well my opinion of your historical knowledge is not improved.

    Nor apparently can you explain to me who gave you the right to declaim that Muscovy should have my home in Ukraine other than it may counter US/NATO 'imperialism' as far as I can follow. Let me make this clear to you: Ukraine is not anyone's, not if you were Justin beauty boy or sitting in the Oval Office or SACEUR, to give.
    Sorry you didn't like the site I referred to. There are several that say the same thing but I won't bother unless you ask for another one similar. You wouldn't like it anyway. They're all published by more intelligent people who don't rely on US/Nato propaganda for information but dig a little deeper for the truth. As for your list going back 50 years and more, you do realize you're talking about the Soviet Union, which doesn't exist anymore?

    I'm not claiming anybody should have your home in Ukraine, except of course if you're referring to the Crimea as your home. And if that's the case, the US meddling and promotion of the overthrow of a duly elected leader, destroyed the happy status quo and caused the peaceful annexation. And if the US/Nato continue to meddle in the Eastern Ukraine, I can only imagine the situation getting worse. Have a nice day!

  12. #882
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    [QUOTE=WABs_OOE;1049495]What a load of crock!

    Just going through the list, most are nothing more than cherry picking exercise and outright frabrication.

    Vietnam: Blame China and France for the separation into North and South
    Cambodia: The VC was using that country as safe haven, practically inviting the Americans to invade
    Iran-Iraq: China and Russia were feeding that inferno, not the US and Saddam started that war. Iran was busy making a fool out of Carter
    Afghanistan: Hey stupid idiot - 11 September. The fucks hit us. We hit back

    Your explanations, or excuses for US wars against Vietnam, Cambodia, Iran, Iraq are just too novel to take seriously. But I suppose that's what happens to the military mind when something has to be made to work for an excuse. Your excuse for the US war against Vietnam though is the real PEACH!

    But your reasoning for Afghanistan at least isn't quite as laughable. That's one that's worth a short comment at least. Or, had you made yourself familiar with history, you would be aware of the reasons OBL gave for the revenge attack on the US. As well as the ongoing violence against the US/Nato countries.

    And let me get this straight? We're supposed to be afraid of Russia? Hahahahahhahahahahahahahaha! Or a Sino-Russian allaince? Hehehehahahahahahahahahahahahahaha One that doesn't exist? Hehehehehahahahehahahahahahahaha
    You haven't gotten that straight still for some reason? So no M-M, we're not supposed to be afraid of Russia and/or China. Why would you think that? Let me explain.

    We're supposed to be afraid of the US starting a war with Russia and/or China. The reason why, as you should know, is that the US is the far superior military power. (and I should leave my explanation there while you're still feeling good, but I can't because you'll go away with a wrong understanding) And so:

    Russia has made it clear via Putin, that it will never accept defeat, and especially at the hands of the US. So to make the explanation short and concise, a war between the US and Russia, even at the level of a localized skirmish in Venezuela for instance, would almost certainly be the beginning of something much bigger. This is why the US/Nato has taken such careful precautions against a direct hit against Russian forces of course, and will continue to do so in my opinion. And vice versa of course for Russia's part. That's why I have such great concern for the situation in Venezuela. The US was able to accept it's defeat in Syria but now we're talking Central and South America. And of course on the other side, Venezuela's people have chosen Maduro and Russia is totally in the right to be there to uphold Venezuela's people's choice. And of course administer to the delivery of aid in order to allow Venezuela's people to continue to live in peace, regardless of the US cruel sanctions. (think in terms of the US becoming a glass parking lot)

    And now I don't have to explain to you any further, except to say that I see there being two wild cards:

    1. Your Stranglovian attitude causes me to wonder if it's consistent with US military thinking? Could the US be so stupidly arrogant?

    2. Trump is a psychopath and is capable of the unthinkable.

    Perhaps a useful discussion to continue from this would be an explanation on what we all should know about psychopaths. Primarily of great concern is that a psychopath will never accept defeat. Heh!

  13. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Oh no, little boy. I've posted links to doctrrines written by a nuclear weapons targeteer, Stuart Slade. He explains clearly how your nuclear weapons knowledge based on a movie is nothing more than bullshit.

    As for the Canadian Forces? Did you know we were armed with nukes? 4 Bde had HONEST JOHNS and Canadian CF-104s in Europe were tasked to drop nukes on Soviet columns. 4th Brigade was VII Corps Strategic Reserves. Do you know what that means? It meant that if things were going bad, we were to cover the rest of VII Corps's retreat across the Rhine. If things were going good, we were to be the killing force to finish the enemy.

    But then again, looking all over your posts, you have nothing but a movie to base your knowledge on and could not even come up with the real history of the Cuban Missile Crisis which I have detailed from beginning to end. You've said there was a trade for Turkey's JUPITER 1s for the USSR leaving Cuba. Well, why did Kruschev lost his job then if the rest of the Politburo didn't feel the USSR lost face? You didn't even know about the KGB knowing those JUPITER 1s were nothing more than interim weapons and just as dangerous to the launch crews as to the targets.

    It is you who is offering nothing but propaganda and mouth piecing. Classic point. Canada's Kayak Armada and fearsome eskimos (The unit is called the Rangers, btw). You know so little about your own country's military that you pretend that Canada should be afraid of Russia and China. We're not. Canadian destroyers are scaring Chinese submarines in the South China Seas. Dumbass.
    What the hell are you all about? Your posts come off as the equivalent of taking corners in a sand box and arguing whether your daddy can beat up my daddy!

    What's the point of it all when we both know that the sides have carefully avoided a direct attack against the other because of the knowledge each side has of almost certain escalation.

    Stop fighting your imaginary war from your rocking chair. It's getting a little tedious M-M.

    https://www.history.com/topics/cold-...missile-crisis

    However, disaster was avoided when the U.S. agreed to Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev’s (1894-1971) offer to remove the Cuban missiles in exchange for the U.S. promising not to invade Cuba. Kennedy also secretly agreed to remove U.S. missiles from Turkey.
    Last edited by montgomery; 29 Mar 19, at 18:33.

  14. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    Sorry you didn't like the site I referred to. There are several that say the same thing but I won't bother unless you ask for another one similar. You wouldn't like it anyway. They're all published by more intelligent people who don't rely on US/Nato propaganda for information but dig a little deeper for the truth. As for your list going back 50 years and more, you do realize you're talking about the Soviet Union, which doesn't exist anymore?
    I am sure that your chosen selective website is run by "more intelligent people etc" but I could find you a website that says the earth is flat, that the Pope endorsed Trumpkin, that all Ukrainians are 'fascists', that alien lizard men live among us or anything else. I did not ask for a website but since you seemed to make some claim to historical knowledge I asked you to list the 'imperial aggressive wars of the US/NATO during the last 40yrs'. You did say 40yrs, not I - though it seems a little arbitrary to me. Would you kindly therefore expound? I am not trying to be nasty - I am genuinely interested if you can list 40yrs of 'imperialist aggressive wars waged by the west'.


    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    I'm not claiming anybody should have your home in Ukraine, except of course if you're referring to the Crimea as your home. And if that's the case, the US meddling and promotion of the overthrow of a duly elected leader, destroyed the happy status quo and caused the peaceful annexation. And if the US/Nato continue to meddle in the Eastern Ukraine, I can only imagine the situation getting worse. Have a nice day!
    I have a great great Uncle buried in a secret place in Sevastopol - he fought with Denekin's 'White' army and was poisoned in hospital by the commies. His troops (he being a Colonel) buried him in secret to stop the commies digging him up and desecrating his body and one of his troops made it to ancestors home (the Colonel's cousin) and told him where our family member was buried. Other than that I have no personal attachment to Crimea and thought the Muscovites were mad to illegally snatch it as it is not profitable and dependent on Ukraine for electricity and water.

    But what about a Lady who used to contribute to this forum? She was Jewish Ukrainian and owned a house in Crimea? She was last seen - so far as I have been able to establish - leaving Ilovaisk along the 'corridor' that Putin guaranteed after Muscovite troops invaded Donbass in July/August 2014. What of the compensation to her family - for her life and for her property? Do you claim the right to pronounce that was legally hers suddenly must not be? What makes you think you have that right? I dare say you have never been to Ukraine or met a Tatar or even a Muscovite; the Ukrainian diaspora I know is quite large in Canada so you may have met a Ukrainian Canadian. But seriously what makes you think that others who you know nothing about on the other side of the world should lose their property - their lives even - because helping Muscovite imperialism is somehow a deterrent to an unproven 'western imperialism'? Did you become a Byzantine Emperor or something? Porphyrogenitus illusions or something? Is it not 'arrogant' to assume you may have such rights?
    Last edited by snapper; 29 Mar 19, at 18:45.

  15. #885
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    snapper,

    Neither am I. I am a 'jagiellonian minded Anglo Polish Ukrainian', born in France to Polish parents, educated in the UK. I want a new 'Commonwealth' or 'intermarium'. I do what I can to help Ukraine because a. my ancestral family home is now in Ukraine (thanks to Stalin and Churchill), which we shall not leave again without fighting and b. as Piłsudski said in 1920 "There can be no independent Poland without an independent Ukraine" - to which I would add the same regarding the Baltic states and Belarus. I saw it coming from 2008 also weighs into it and it just seems redundant to twiddle my thumbs in the UK or Poland when I can help against the common enemy. 'Nationalism' of any kind is the least of my motives.
    i stand corrected, you are Anne Applebaum . :-)
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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