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Thread: Ex-FBI Director Mueller appointed DOJ Special Counsel

  1. #781
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    Mueller Delivers Report on Russia Investigation to Attorney General

    _____________
    I think I can make a safe prediction on what it contains, mainly because most of this is already a matter of public record:

    Multiple members of the Trump Campaign and Family knowingly and willingly met with foreign agents, Russians in particular, for the purpose of swinging the election for Trump.

    The same occurred with multiple American women that Trump had extramartial affairs with: Member(s) of the Trump Organization paid out Campaign and/or Organization funds to keep them silent for the purpose of preventing bad publicity for Trump. The funds were disguised to prevent their origins from being discerned.

    The Trump Organization, despite Trump's later denials, had deep connections to Russia for business purposes right up to and likely after the election, which were confirmed by by Trump, his Family and members of his Organization in previous years.

    There will not likely be direct incontrovertible evidence in the form of Donald Trump walking into the Kremlin with a suitcase full of cash and walking out with a signed IOU from Putin promising help with the election. Crime bosses, even 3rd rate semi-literate special-needs crime bosses like Trump, don't take direct actions like that.

    It certainly won't bother to tell us what any thinking person already knows about Donald Trump:

    He's a stupid man's idea of a smart man
    He's a poor man's idea of a rich man
    He's weak man's idea of a strong man

    But you know...his policies.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  2. #782
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Nothing burger that cost over $30,000,000.

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Nothing burger
    Except for the 34 individuals (and counting) indicted, 5 of them senior Trump Campaign and/or Trump Cabinet members, all of whom have been found guilty of a laundry list of charges, including Conspiracy against the United States.

    We'll not mention the 26 Russian nationals and three Russian organizations. Wouldn't want to spoil that nothing burger.

    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    that cost over $30,000,000.
    They've seized at least $48,000,000...Meanwhile the U.S. posted its biggest monthly budget deficit on record last month. But good job spotting the real fiscal problems the country is facing.

    That Kool-Aid sure is addictive isn't it.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  4. #784
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Now it is time for a special council to investigate political operatives employed by the FBI that ran interference for Hillary and the DNC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Now it is time for a special council to investigate political operatives employed by the FBI that ran interference for Hillary and the DNC.
    I have no problem with that...Question is, why hasn't Donald Trump called for that?
    I mean, his golf and "Executive Time" schedule is pretty hefty, but you'd think he would've gotten around to it by now.

    Oh, right! I almost forgot. Trump probably has other things on his mind right now:

    In New York:
    • The state attorney general subpoenaed two banks this week for financial records relating to several Trump Organization projects, the New York Times reported.
    • Federal prosecutors are still investigating campaign-finance violations within Trump's campaign even after his former attorney Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to violations stemming from hush money payments to women who alleged affairs with Trump. Cohen has said he made the payments at Trump’s direction.Cohen said he’s been in “constant contact” with federal prosecutors in New York about other investigations, but wouldn’t elaborate.
    • Trump’s inaugural committee was subpoenaed in February as part of an investigation into the group’s fundraising activities.
    • State authorities in New York have been investigating Trump's private foundation.


    In Washington and Maryland:
    • Attorneys general in Maryland and the District of Columbia filed a lawsuit alleging Trump violated the Constitution's Emolument's clause, which bans gifts and payments from foreign governments. The case could allow officials some insight into Trump's business dealings and potential conflicts of interests.


    In Congress:
    • Lawmakers are just getting started. The Democratic-led House Judiciary Committee opened a sweeping investigation this month into Trump and his associates, requesting documents from 81 "agencies, entities, and individuals" connected to the administration and Trump's private businesses.
    • The House Oversight Committee is also examining a wide array of topics, including Trump's communications with Russian President Vladimir Putin, White House efforts in a nuclear deal with Saudi Arabia, whether Trump played any part in securing top-secret security clearances for members of his family and whether Trump violated the Constitution by accepting profits from foreign governments. The Committee welcomed Cohen earlier this month, then laid out an investigative road map that could include other Trump Organization employees.
    • The House Intelligence Committee is expanding its own investigation of Russian election interference.
    Last edited by TopHatter; 23 Mar 19, at 02:56.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  6. #786
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Yup, I don’t particularly care for Maryland’s special waste of tax payers slush funds just to specially sue the Federal Government. The AG Of Md should be focusing on Maryland.

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Manafort sentenced again (7.5yrs or so in total) and newly indicted in New York, Manhattan.

    Not real indictments, purely grandstanding. NY recognizes federal prosecution as an attachment that bars state prosecution under double jeopardy. The counts are for the same crimes as already prosecuted for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Except for the 34 individuals (and counting) indicted, 5 of them senior Trump Campaign and/or Trump Cabinet members, all of whom have been found guilty of a laundry list of charges, including Conspiracy against the United States.
    No one connected to the Administration has been convicted of more than a process crime.

    We'll not mention the 26 Russian nationals and three Russian organizations. Wouldn't want to spoil that nothing burger.
    Mueller's biggest gaff, he did not expect Russia to appear, they did and he had to back pedal in order to keep defense atorney's representing Russian's from having access to sources and methods. The judge has ruled that the defense can't share the raw info with the Russians, but even diluted info will reveal something since the Russian's have the right to face any humint accusers, and any elint or cyber will leave cookie crumbs they might be able to sniff out. For $500 per billining hour Putin gets to sniff around our sources and methods because Mueller tried to grandstand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    No one connected to the Administration has been convicted of more than a process crime.
    Your tolerence for the criminals of the Trump Family is remarkable. Also, Conspiracy against the United States is a "process crime"?
    Look, I know that supporting Donald Trump inherently means swallowing lie after lie, but not all of us are drinking that Kool-Aid.

    Conspiracy against the United States is NOT a fucking "process crime".
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Your tolerence for the criminals of the Trump Family is remarkable. Also, Conspiracy against the United States is a "process crime"?
    Look, I know that supporting Donald Trump inherently means swallowing lie after lie, but not all of us are drinking that Kool-Aid.

    Conspiracy against the United States is NOT a fucking "process crime".
    Exactly one administration official was charged and convicted; Flynn and he served in the administration for hours not months or years. His charge is a process crime. The only real baddies so far is Manafort who was convicted of crimes committed years before any association with Trump and Cohen. Cohen's crimes were mostly related to his own personal fecklessness. SDNY got him to plead to a campaign violation charge that even the FEC guy who wrote the law says is not actually a violation. Its a charge the government tried and failed to use against Edwards. Paying off mistresses is unseemly, but is not a crime. Most of the indictments are for show, against Russians who will never see a US court room. Maybe they are guilty, maybe not, there will never be a trail where the governments accusations can be challenged except vs a Russian company. Since you can't put a corporation in jail they hired a legal team and put pie all over Mueller's face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    No one connected to the Administration has been convicted of more than a process crime.



    Mueller's biggest gaff, he did not expect Russia to appear, they did and he had to back pedal in order to keep defense atorney's representing Russian's from having access to sources and methods. The judge has ruled that the defense can't share the raw info with the Russians, but even diluted info will reveal something since the Russian's have the right to face any humint accusers, and any elint or cyber will leave cookie crumbs they might be able to sniff out. For $500 per billining hour Putin gets to sniff around our sources and methods because Mueller tried to grandstand.

    zraver,

    “No one connected to the Administration has been convicted of more than a process crime.”

    You seem to be implying that these are somehow lesser felonies, which is not the case. Interfering with justice harms society and the public interest far more than a mugging. Lying to courts or congress – something GOPers seem to have a knack for – causes errors and unintended consequences such as an unnecessary war of aggression against the only secular nation in the Middle East, and the subsequent creation of ISIS (thanks a bunch, Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz-Bush).

    Mugging harms an individual.
    Treason is a process crime.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  12. #792
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Director Comey (an admitted corrupt official) gets fired. His allies initiated an investigation of the man that fired him. The most significant thing revealed is the rot within the DOJ and the FBI. The abuse of the FISA process and partisanship in the executive branch’s must be purged, to ever have legitimacy. That is where the treason to the country lies, partisanship where neutrality should live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post

    zraver,

    “No one connected to the Administration has been convicted of more than a process crime.”

    You seem to be implying that these are somehow lesser felonies, which is not the case. Interfering with justice harms society and the public interest far more than a mugging. Lying to courts or congress – something GOPers seem to have a knack for – causes errors and unintended consequences such as an unnecessary war of aggression against the only secular nation in the Middle East, and the subsequent creation of ISIS (thanks a bunch, Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz-Bush).

    Mugging harms an individual.
    Treason is a process crime.
    A Process crime is an offense against the judicial system. It is not treason. In this case the only administration conviction was for a process crime, where the initial FBI investigation said it was a lapse of memory and where no predicate crime existed since Flynn's contact was perfectly legal and appropriate. Treason is a predicate crime, not a process crime. However, no one was charged with Treason.

    You might be thinking crimes of moral turpitude. ie Manafort and Stone, but neither were connected to the Administration and Stone has yet to be convicted. More Americans inside the FBI/DOJ connected to the Mueller Investigation have been fired for cause or referred for criminal prosecution than Americans connected to Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Director Comey (an admitted corrupt official) gets fired. His allies initiated an investigation of the man that fired him. The most significant thing revealed is the rot within the DOJ and the FBI. The abuse of the FISA process and partisanship in the executive branch’s must be purged, to ever have legitimacy. That is where the treason to the country lies, partisanship where neutrality should live.
    Hold on... we know why Comey got fired I think. Trumpkin told us! Oh yes "because of the the Russia thing". Was Trumpkin mistaken in his motivation or lying? That is why the Mueller Inquiry was launched and it reeks of Obstruction of Justice... which doubtless according to zraver is another 'process crime'.
    Last edited by snapper; 24 Mar 19, at 22:47.

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    A Process crime is an offense against the judicial system. It is not treason. In this case the only administration conviction was for a process crime, where the initial FBI investigation said it was a lapse of memory and where no predicate crime existed since Flynn's contact was perfectly legal and appropriate. Treason is a predicate crime, not a process crime. However, no one was charged with Treason.

    You might be thinking crimes of moral turpitude. ie Manafort and Stone, but neither were connected to the Administration and Stone has yet to be convicted. More Americans inside the FBI/DOJ connected to the Mueller Investigation have been fired for cause or referred for criminal prosecution than Americans connected to Trump.
    Conspiracy is not a 'process crime'.

    Just think when Trumpkin was standing on the stage with Clinton and saying "You're the puppet" his guys Sater (a convicted criminal) and Flynn (now also a convicted criminal) were trying to get a 'Trumpkin Tower Moscow' built.

    Nor do I think we should trust and accept any 'Barr summary' of the Mueller report. The whole thing must be released to Congress at the very least. Congress can then follow up on any untied ends and interview significant persons in public so the public can be informed. At present I hear the Trumpkin supporters quoting some policy that if a person is not going to be charged details of an investigation into them should not be made public... funny how how exactly that happened to Clinton and I never heard them complain then.

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