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Thread: Ex-FBI Director Mueller appointed DOJ Special Counsel

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    z,



    if the Flynn investigation was run on a single thread by a biased investigator (which shouldn't matter outside purposes of professional perception; after all, the charges/evidence needs to hold up in court), then there's no way Flynn pleads guilty to anything.

    the idea that Flynn gave up because he feared bankruptcy is risible-- not only does the LTG (ret) have plenty of resources by himself, Trump certainly wouldn't leave a guiltless subordinate in the lurch, plus every conservative law group in DC would be jumping to fight this out pro-bono.
    Flynn was fired for lying. Being guiltless and subject to a malicious persecution are not mutually exclusive.

    i agree that ultimately the President himself will be judged not in a court of law but as part of a straight political calculation in the Senate. does Trump being there help or hurt the Republican cause, or more specifically, the re-election cause of a bunch of GOP senators.
    Never getting to the senate. Trump is too popular with the base, the GOP's hold on the House is a lot stronger than media likes to portray and its the Dems in trouble in the Senate as far as seats to defend goes.

    the way this investigation is going leads me to believe there will probably be more indictments and convictions of other members in the Trump candidacy, but probably not of Trump himself-- as far as i can tell he neither has the cunning nor the secretiveness needed to keep up a campaign of deliberate collusion.

    given that Trump's campaign DID feature more-than-the-usual collection of stupid naive fools (see: Papadopoulos, Kushner, Trump Jr), it's likely there was a bunch of situational activities, a la Trump Jr accepting "help" from Wikileaks.
    Trump Jr was turned on to Wikileaks after they released the Podesta Emails. Working with them is no different than the HRC working with other favorable media outlets to run stories for her and against Trump. Its not illegal. End of the day, no one has been able to cite a statute that the Trump campaign broke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post

    I don't know much about the US version of Common Law but if you let this claptrap pass liberty is over. It disgusts me to see so called 'conservatives', the very idea of which is enshrined in the custom based Common Law, try to say that the Head of State is above all law. So should he turn the troops on the people that would be legal, should he imprison all opposition - abolish the Congress - nothing illegal would have passed? Perhaps this is what he admires in Putin? A 'show democracy' might suit him or just rule by decree. No no this a very dark path.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBiLT3LASk
    No president has ever been subject to criminal law while in office. The Constitution leaves no provision for a judicial branch judge to sit in judgement of the president personally. Instead the Constitution relies on impeachment for High Crimes and Misdemeanors. To subject the President to both prosecution and impeachment would violate the double jeopardy provision. His control of the executive, all of it is baked into the Constitution.

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    Common Law is dependent on precedent - custom - it has been proved by the English Civil War that not even a King is above the law. There is no "Divine Right" or above the law in Common Law. You want a despot King? You are arguing the case for amending your Constitution in my view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Common Law is dependent on precedent - custom - it has been proved by the English Civil War that not even a King is above the law. There is no "Divine Right" or above the law in Common Law. You want a despot King? You are arguing the case for amending your Constitution in my view.
    What don't you get? The President is NOT above the Law. Congress and Only Congress can impeach him and punish him accordingly. What's getting your goat is that no one in Congress is listening to you to arrest Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Trump Jr was turned on to Wikileaks after they released the Podesta Emails. Working with them is no different than the HRC working with other favorable media outlets to run stories for her and against Trump. Its not illegal. End of the day, no one has been able to cite a statute that the Trump campaign broke.
    So, your contention is that an outfit that deals in stolen information is no different from one that gets its info legitimately?

    Nice to know where your particular moral compass points.
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    Sort of like the National Enquirer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    So, your contention is that an outfit that deals in stolen information is no different from one that gets its info legitimately?

    Nice to know where your particular moral compass points.
    Politicians have a moral compass?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    So, your contention is that an outfit that deals in stolen information is no different from one that gets its info legitimately?

    Nice to know where your particular moral compass points.
    Are you really condemning the NYT and WaPo? They set the standard with the Pentagon Papers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Politicians have a moral compass?
    zraver's a politician?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    What don't you get? The President is NOT above the Law. Congress and Only Congress can impeach him and punish him accordingly. What's getting your goat is that no one in Congress is listening to you to arrest Trump.
    I do not believe I mentioned arresting anyone but I am pleased you agree with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I do not believe I mentioned arresting anyone but I am pleased you agree with me.
    Your lack of comprehension is astounding. No where did I agree with you. My comment was to point out that you are wrong, plain and simple. Trump is not king and he is not above the law. However, Congress and only Congress can punish him while he's in Office. The fact that they have not done so means that Trump has broken no laws in the eyes of Congress.

    You, however, are the not the authority to decide Trump's guilt under American Law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Your lack of comprehension is astounding. No where did I agree with you. My comment was to point out that you are wrong, plain and simple. Trump is not king and he is not above the law. However, Congress and only Congress can punish him while he's in Office. The fact that they have not done so means that Trump has broken no laws in the eyes of Congress.

    You, however, are the not the authority to decide Trump's guilt under American Law.
    I am not sure it is I that misunderstand Sir - I argued precisely that nobody is above the law in a Common Law system. I mentioned Charles l and the English Civil War - what does that history teach you? So you agreed with me in supporting the principles of Common Law within a Common Law jurisdiction - which the US is. I apologise if my view was not clear to you.

    I also said I am no expert on the US version of Common Law - they also have a Constitution as well as the law unlike England or the UK. My view would be that any leader - be he/she a President or a Monarch - should be subject to the laws that any normal citizen or subject normally has no problem complying with. If the Queen murdered someone she should be tried for murder just like Joe Smith who murders his enemy. For the law to be respected it must apply equally to all. Perhaps that is not the case in the US Constitution and it requires - as you say - impeachment. You probably know more about the US Constitution than I. But my point was that if any Head of State get's different treatment than the lowest person in the country - or can openly break the law with immunity - freedom in that country is at serious risk.

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    How does Her Majesty command Her Majesty's Navy when she is sitting in a prison?

    There are established lines of succession in the event of illness or nuclear attack, but they are not there for sitting in prison. A part of the government trying to remove or incapacitate a chief executive is a coup.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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    As you are probably aware the Monarch in the UK has little executive power but to answer your question the heir takes over; this has happened before with George lll when his son, the heir, became Regent for his Father who suffered a temporary mental incapacity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    How does Her Majesty command Her Majesty's Navy when she is sitting in a prison?

    There are established lines of succession in the event of illness or nuclear attack, but they are not there for sitting in prison. A part of the government trying to remove or incapacitate a chief executive is a coup.
    The inability to carry out the duties of the Office of the President is pretty well covered by the 25th Amendment.
    "A part of the government trying to remove or incapacitate a chief executive" is called the House of Representatives (impeachment) and the Senate (trial).
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