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Thread: Ex-FBI Director Mueller appointed DOJ Special Counsel

  1. #226
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    yup, but i'd rather have those two screaming rather than NATO screaming. besides, Israel's -always- screaming.
    Generally agree, but that's not to say that Obama's FP was a masterpiece. Saudi and Israel complaining is a concern because it means the Mideast policy was generally fucked up: and it WAS fucked up. I guess that's not really Obama's fault, because it's not like W's was a master-piece either, but NATO is making a big show over very little.

    Also, if we have to have a confrontational stance with Russia over Baltic states, it's appropriate to question whether NATO is now a liability.


    your assessment confuses the hell out of me. what you're saying that is with two completely different personalities, two completely different motivations, two completely different stated foreign policies...and a President Clinton would not treat Russia significantly different than President Trump?
    What material differences would there be? She might be able to throw a few more sanctions down. I guess she could have pursued Syria differently, but pursuing Syria differently would be a detriment, not an improvement.
    Last edited by GVChamp; 11 Jan 18, at 18:07.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    not really. the explanation that Obama had such an ego that he'd execute a war for the Europeans for no other reason than sweet talk...and Trump does not?
    Again, Obama had decided that the US should stay out of Lybia and then went in full bore for the Europeans who did not even had the munitions for such a small campaign. The results speak for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i'm not sure what aspect where Trump is demonstrating that he "ain't bending over", when everyone from Moon to Abe to Xi to Macron knows that once you shower flattery and parades and compliments on Trump, he gives you everything you want.
    Sweet talk will only get you so far with Trump. In the end, the businessman shines through and through. Show him the money.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    in any case, i think we're getting caught up in politicized terminology. what i'd call as "commitment to allies", you call "being commanded by allies". what i'd call "defining NATO as a protection racket and talking about walking away", you say "he ain't bending over".

    well, OK, but can you really say that NATO relations are better now or Western Europe is more secure now that Trump is Prez?
    This ain't new and West Europe is under ZERO threat and Trump is telling the Europeans to do their own dirty work.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    your assessment confuses the hell out of me. what you're saying that is with two completely different personalities, two completely different motivations, two completely different stated foreign policies...and a President Clinton would not treat Russia significantly different than President Trump?
    I'm saying that had the positions been reversed, HRC would not have yield her Presidency nor call for a new election to the point of denying the Russians interfered n the election.

    And what different personalities, they're both New Yorkers.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 11 Jan 18, at 19:00.

  3. #228
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    I'm saying that had the positions been reversed, HRC would not have yield her Presidency nor call for a new election to the point of denying the Russians interfered n the election.

    And what different personalities, they're both New Yorkers.
    again, that's not the scenario which i brought up. but yes, if for some utterly bizarre reason Putin interfered in the election for HRC and HRC won, I also wouldn't expect HRC to yield her Presidency or call for a new election.

    on the other hand, i would also expect that she would not fire the FBI director, not talk about firing her head of DOJ, not reject the intel community's conclusions wholesale, nor insult the FBI/CIA..
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  4. #229
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    GVChamp,

    Generally agree, but that's not to say that Obama's FP was a masterpiece. Saudi and Israel complaining is a concern because it means the Mideast policy was generally fucked up: and it WAS fucked up. I guess that's not really Obama's fault, because it's not like W's was a master-piece either, but NATO is making a big show over very little.
    no, Obama's FP was not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination. but i'll take uninspired, incremental but generally correct actions (rebalance to Asia, TPP, etc) over utter incompetency (Dubya's first administration, Trump).

    for instance, take Trump pushing for greater NATO financial commitment: something I -wholeheartedly- agree with, yet done with such blundering incompetence, it takes the breath away.

    Also, if we have to have a confrontational stance with Russia over Baltic states, it's appropriate to question whether NATO is now a liability.
    in short, Cold War 2.0. if NATO wasn't a liability then, it's not a liability now. the only reason why there's a confrontation is because Russia buys into natural spheres of influence. the Baltic states certainly aren't causing the problem, because they know full well that even if NATO comes to the rescue, their respective countries will be parking lots by the time NATO troops roll in.

    What material differences would there be? She might be able to throw a few more sanctions down. I guess she could have pursued Syria differently, but pursuing Syria differently would be a detriment, not an improvement.
    pretty big, i'd think. the sanction space for Russia is actually relatively large. openly announce that Russia is a strategic competitor, the way that we're doing with China now. dramatically reduce Russian embassy presence. more funds to the European Reassurance Initiative. bump up the covert findings of the Obama Administration. ramped up cyber offense. arms transfers to the Baltics, Poland, and Ukraine. hell, just announce a semi-permanent US presence in Ukraine...for military training, lol.

    Syria probably not, because frankly if Putin wants to spend his people and money blasting away for the greater glory of Assad, let him.
    Last edited by astralis; 11 Jan 18, at 20:20.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  5. #230
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Thread drift?

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    ^ this is something with a rich WAB tradition! like how our Fall of France thread turned into a discussion of the Soviet invasion of Manchuria and a truck discussion, lol.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  7. #232
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Semi-tagents may arise, but it's going to keep snapping back as new developments and revelations occur in the ongoing Mueller probe. WWII is not an ongoing event.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    on the other hand, i would also expect that she would not fire the FBI director, not talk about firing her head of DOJ, not reject the intel community's conclusions wholesale, nor insult the FBI/CIA..
    No, just the usual expecting resignations in the morning, cutting people out of the decision loops, and ignoring intel as usuai. You know, the standard Washington DC way of firing FBI directors, talking about firing DOJ heads, and regecting spooks wholesale. She won't insult FBI/CIA but she would blame them wholesale for any mess they involved her ... like she did the whole Lybian Embassy fiasco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    GVChamp,



    no, Obama's FP was not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination. but i'll take uninspired, incremental but generally correct actions (rebalance to Asia, TPP, etc) over utter incompetency (Dubya's first administration, Trump).

    for instance, take Trump pushing for greater NATO financial commitment: something I -wholeheartedly- agree with, yet done with such blundering incompetence, it takes the breath away.
    But did it work?



    Obama's FP was an abject failure. Russia and ISIS expanded, Iran saw its coffers replenished, NK went full speed ahead on Nukes, China built islands and planted flags all over the SCS, Turkey bombed our Kurdish allies, Libya immolated. He had zero FP successes.

    v Trump

    NATO is increasing defense spending, NK sanctions are applying real pressure, US troops are physically interposing themselves between Russia and NATO allies because you know that is what reliable allies do, China is being far less aggressive and at least halfheartedly joining the sanctions regime against NK.

    End of the day its didn't work at all vs it seems to be working pretty well.

  10. #235
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Alleged abuse of power to obtain FISA warrants.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...officials.html

  11. #236
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Bannon Is Subpoenaed in Mueller’s Russia Investigation

    WASHINGTON — Stephen K. Bannon, President Trump’s former chief strategist, was subpoenaed last week by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, to testify before a grand jury as part of the investigation into possible links between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter.

    The move marked the first time Mr. Mueller is known to have used a grand jury subpoena to seek information from a member of Mr. Trump’s inner circle. The special counsel’s office has used subpoenas before to seek information on Mr. Trump’s associates and their possible ties to Russia or other foreign governments.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/u...-subpoena.html

    Bannon refused to answer House panel's questions about time in White House

    President Donald Trump's former adviser Steve Bannon refused to answer questions Tuesday from the House intelligence committee about his time in the White House, prompting panel members to subpoena him on the spot, according to a person familiar with the interview.
    [...]
    According to the source, Bannon's attorney told the committee that he wouldn't discuss anything about his time in the White House or during the transition after the 2016 election.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ubpoena-341492
    Last edited by Ironduke; 16 Jan 18, at 23:08.

  12. #237
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Bannon will do interview with special counsel, avoiding grand jury for now

    Steve Bannon has struck a deal with special counsel Robert Mueller's team and will be interviewed by prosecutors instead of testifying before the grand jury, two people familiar with the process told CNN. He is expected to cooperate with the special counsel, the sources said.

    The sources did not say when the interview will take place or if the subpoena would be withdrawn.

    Bannon, the former White House chief strategist for President Donald Trump, is expected to talk openly to Mueller's team. Bannon's attorney told the House Intelligence Committee on Tuesday that Bannon would answer questions when he goes to the special counsel because executive privilege would not apply, according to one of the sources.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/polit...eal/index.html

    Lawmakers vow to force answers from Bannon in Russia probe after he defies subpoena

    Lawmakers investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election vowed Tuesday to force answers from Steve Bannon after the former senior strategist to President Donald Trump stonewalled their inquiries — even after the committee issued a subpoena with bipartisan support.

    Lawmakers in both parties attributed Bannon's silence to the White House, which they said told him to refuse to discuss his time in the West Wing or on Trump's transition team. Bannon's refusal to speak clearly angered lawmakers on the House Intelligence Committee, who vowed to make him speak.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ubpoena-341492
    Last edited by Ironduke; 17 Jan 18, at 18:06.

  13. #238
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    A bit curious. Why is it that the White House is not wanting Bannon to speak?

    The White House is working behind the scenes to limit the testimony to congressional investigations into Russian meddling in the 2016 election, according to multiple sources.

    The attempts to curtail testimony to congressional investigators became clear this week when former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon appeared before the House Intelligence Committee and infuriated both sides of the aisle by refusing to answer questions about his work during the presidential transition and in the White House.

    At some points during Bannon's six hours of closed-door testimony, his attorney took breaks to confer via telephone with the White House counsel's office to clarify what questions could be answered and came back with the same guidance: Bannon could not discuss any activities related to the transition or his tenure in the White House.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/polit...ony/index.html

  14. #239
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Congress is to review a classified report on FBI and DOJ shenanigans.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ort-fbi-348024

    And calls to make the report public.

    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/...fbi-doj-trump/

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...de-public.html
    Last edited by surfgun; Yesterday at 03:04.

  15. #240
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    If it's released, without the underlying evidence to corroborate the allegations in the memo, it's just a memo, liable to be seen as a product of partisan motivations.

    Trump, of course, can declassify all of the alleged underlying evidence if he so chooses. If the whole Russia thing is a hoax, as he says, it's a no-brainer, and he should not have any reservations in doing so.
    Last edited by Ironduke; Today at 00:45.

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