Originally posted by zraver
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Originally posted by snapper View PostSo the Congressional and FBI inquiries into the known Muscovite attempt to influence the election in Trump's favour are just media gossip? We know Comey was fired because of the Muscovite inquiry - Trump said so. That is not media gossip, nor was Flynn's dismissal, or Manafort's or all the rest or Sessions 'recusal' which he seems to have broken. These are FACTS not media gossip.
I believe that despite Trump's claims that of how everyone "lost confidence" in Comey, everyone, in fact, has lost whatever tiny remaining shred of confidence they had in Trump.
Saying Republicans in Congress had confidence in Trump may be an overstatement, perhaps instead of using the word confidence, saying they merely set aside their strong reservations to work on areas of common interest, despite Trump's egregious acts, would be a more apt way of putting it. So the Republicans aren't going to lose confidence per say, as you cannot lose something you never had, they are merely going to stop setting aside their strong reservations.
Obviously, many of them don't want to stick their neck out if the viability of impeachment proceedings are uncertain. I think just enough of them will, however, and alongside the Democrats, will create a majority to vote for articles of impeachment.Last edited by Ironduke; 13 May 17,, 14:48."Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."
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Originally posted by zraver View PostNope, not until after the investigations of the IRS for targeting the Tea Party and Hillary Clinton's email server, and of the Clinton Foundation.
Of course we are, the sooner you grasp that the sooner you'll get it. The Russia, Russia, Russia meme being pushed by the media stands in direct opposition to the way the media buried anything that might hurt the Dems. Everything is about the media to Trump supporters. Unless you can restore media credibility with them, you can't get at him."Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by snapper View Postnot SVR but GRU. The difference between the two is really what their objectives are and thus how they are used."Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."
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Originally posted by antimony View PostI do not see the burning need to get at Trump supporters. His ratings are at a dismal low, which means he is down to his core base, which will never change even if he shoots someone in the middle of 5th Ave (his words).
There were other preceding factors that set the stage for the rise of someone like Trump to power, however I think the main catalyst that definitively set our country on the course it's been on was the Republican Revolution of 1995, in which this attitude of burn your political opponents to the ground, and burn out the middle ground too - nuclear option every day, and I'm not just talking about the procedural, parliamentary procedure - that this is how our country became the way it is.
I found it quite disturbing to read that something like 80% of Americans would marry across party lines in the 1950s, yet only 10% would today. The hate, vitriol, and polarization that exist today in American society is precisely the sort of thing that could cause a civil war, if we do not correct course. Trump is a problem, but he is merely the culmination, and ultimately a really bad symptom of an underlying disease that has infected our society, culture, and government.Last edited by Ironduke; 13 May 17,, 18:25."Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."
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Originally posted by snapper View PostSo the Congressional and FBI inquiries into the known Muscovite attempt to influence the election in Trump's favour are just media gossip? We know Comey was fired because of the Muscovite inquiry - Trump said so. That is not media gossip, nor was Flynn's dismissal, or Manafort's or all the rest or Sessions 'recusal' which he seems to have broken. These are FACTS not media gossip.
Does the following conform to the reporting?
In part of his NBC interview, Trump said he did not seek to halt the FBI’s Russian inquiry, but rather sought to make sure it was done well.
“As far as I’m concerned, I want that thing to be absolutely done properly,” the president said. “Maybe I’ll expand that, you know, lengthen the time.” Regarding the investigation, he added, “I want that to be so strong and so good. And I want it to happen.” Those comments give the president and his lawyers evidence to rebut any claim that he sought to obstruct the FBI inquiry.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...512-story.htmlLast edited by JAD_333; 13 May 17,, 18:34.To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
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Originally posted by JAD_333 View PostSnapper, you illustrate well what's wrong with the approach of the media and Trump's detractors. You say he fired Comey "because of the Muscovite inquiry." That's false. Yes, Trump did say the inquiry was on his mind when he fired Comey, but he didn't say his motive was to end the inquiry. Trump is sloppy in this way. Nevertheless, the whole quote in context (see below) flies in the face of what you and Trump detractors are accusing him of.
Does the following conform to the reporting?"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by Ironduke View PostThere were other preceding factors that set the stage for the rise of someone like Trump to power, however I think the main catalyst that definitively set our country on the course it's been on was the Republican Revolution of 1995, in which this attitude of burn your political opponents to the ground, and burn out the middle ground too - nuclear option every day, and I'm not just talking about the procedural, parliamentary procedure - that this is how our country became the way it is.
I'm not throwing shade on the Republicans - I supported neither Trump or Clinton in 2016. I'm throwing shade on the institutional and structural failings in our society, and the actors who were the catalyst in creating these major problems we face today, who can now be found in both parties.
For the record, I preferred Rand Paul of all the candidates, despite the fact he had no realistic path to the nomination. I appreciated the honesty of Sanders's convictions, but he proposes changes that are far too radical. Some have mistakenly assumed me to be a socialist or internationalist on other threads, so I thought I'd get this out of the way.Last edited by Ironduke; 13 May 17,, 19:51."Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."
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Originally posted by JAD_333 View PostSnapper, you illustrate well what's wrong with the approach of the media and Trump's detractors. You say he fired Comey "because of the Muscovite inquiry." That's false. Yes, Trump did say the inquiry was on his mind when he fired Comey, but he didn't say his motive was to end the inquiry. Trump is sloppy in this way. Nevertheless, the whole quote in context (see below) flies in the face of what you and Trump detractors are accusing him of.
Does the following conform to the reporting?
This man has an itchy trigger finger, not just in regards to officials like Comey, but generally everyone in the world. He is mercurial, capricious, and subject to extreme shifts in temperament that occur over the course of seconds, in ways that are extremely dangerous, given the office he holds. He is easily baited into both Twitter wars, and also military actions undertaken in response to false flag operations conducted by adversaries. He is both the semi-witting and unwitting agent of a foreign power, as are many of his staff, both current and former, both campaign and White House.
That's enough for me.
I am confident that history will bear everything I have just said, to be correct.Last edited by Ironduke; 13 May 17,, 20:01."Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."
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Originally posted by JAD_333 View PostSnapper, you illustrate well what's wrong with the approach of the media and Trump's detractors. You say he fired Comey "because of the Muscovite inquiry." That's false. Yes, Trump did say the inquiry was on his mind when he fired Comey, but he didn't say his motive was to end the inquiry. Trump is sloppy in this way. Nevertheless, the whole quote in context (see below) flies in the face of what you and Trump detractors are accusing him of.
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Originally posted by snapper View Post. Flynn did talk about sanctions, contacts were occurring all over during the campaign and there are ongoing investigations because of it all.
But as for the contacts themselves, a neutral observer might wonder why they are such a big deal. Why didn't Obama's comment to then president of Russia Medvedev during the 2012 campaign merit the level of fuss being made today about a Trump senior staffer's contacts with a Russian ambassador?
President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have "more flexibility" to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.
Obama, during talks in Seoul, urged Moscow to give him "space" until after the November ballot, and Medvedev said he would relay the message to incoming Russian president Vladimir Putin.
The unusually frank exchange came as Obama and Medvedev huddled together on the eve of a global nuclear security summit in the South Korean capital, unaware their words were being picked up by microphones as reporters were led into the room.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nu...82P0JI20120326
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
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Originally posted by zraver View PostOf course we are, the sooner you grasp that the sooner you'll get it. The Russia, Russia, Russia meme being pushed by the media stands in direct opposition to the way the media buried anything that might hurt the Dems. Everything is about the media to Trump supporters. Unless you can restore media credibility with them, you can't get at him.
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Originally posted by JAD_333 View PostThat was no crime. The worse part of it is that Flynn lied to the vice president about the nature of his contacts with the Russian ambassador. It cost him his job, rightly so.
But as for the contacts themselves, a neutral observer might wonder why they are such a big deal. Why didn't Obama's comment to then president of Russia Medvedev during the 2012 campaign merit the level of fuss being made today about a Trump senior staffer's contacts with a Russian ambassador?"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by zraver View PostName one Leftist political rally shut down or even seriously disrupted by the Rightwing. On the Left we have how many riots by BLM, how many Trump rallies and conservative speaking engagements attacked by the anti-fa, we have tapes of the Left planning to disrupt rallies and town halls. Rightwing violence in the US is relatively rare and tends towards racist or religious not political.
To make an argument from silence (Latin: argumentum ex silentio) is to express a conclusion that is based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than on presence.Trust me?
I'm an economist!
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Loyalty
According to this law,
An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath: “I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This section does not affect other oaths required by law.…
(Pub. L. 89–554, Sept. 6, 1966, 80 Stat. 424.)
An employee of the Federal Bureau of Investigation shall take this oath:
I [name] do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
Note the requirement for loyalty to the Constitution.
Not the absence of any requirement for loyalty to an individual who may, for a period of time, hold any particular office.
Say, President of the United States of America.Trust me?
I'm an economist!
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