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Thread: Director Comey fired

  1. #61
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    so, today POTUS admitted that he fired Comey due to the Russia investigation, and then threatened Comey by hinting that he has tapes of their conversations.

    and to round this out, also threatened to end WH press briefings.

    just another day with this WH.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  2. #62
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Hey folks!

    Long time no login!

    -dale
    Hey Dale.

    I've been living about five miles away from you for the past four years. Nice to see you around again.

  3. #63
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    so this is what spurred Trump's threat to Comey. as i mentioned earlier, publicly humiliating a FBI director is not a wise idea.

    ====

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/u...ey-firing.html

    In a Private Dinner, Trump Demanded Loyalty. Comey Demurred.

    By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT
    MAY 11, 2017

    WASHINGTON — Only seven days after Donald J. Trump was sworn in as president, James B. Comey has told associates, the F.B.I. director was summoned to the White House for a one-on-one dinner with the new commander in chief.

    The conversation that night in January, Mr. Comey now believes, was a harbinger of his downfall this week as head of the F.B.I., according to two people who have heard his account of the dinner.

    As they ate, the president and Mr. Comey made small talk about the election and the crowd sizes at Mr. Trump’s rallies. The president then turned the conversation to whether Mr. Comey would pledge his loyalty to him.

    The White House’s story about James Comey’s firing is unraveling. Among those contradicting the president is the president.

    Mr. Comey declined to make that pledge. Instead, Mr. Comey has recounted to others, he told Mr. Trump that he would always be honest with him, but that he was not “reliable” in the conventional political sense.

    The White House says this account is not correct. And Mr. Trump, in an interview on Thursday with NBC, described a far different dinner conversation with Mr. Comey in which the director asked to have the meeting and the question of loyalty never came up. It was not clear whether he was talking about the same meal, but they are believed to have had only one dinner together.

    By Mr. Comey’s account, his answer to Mr. Trump’s initial question apparently did not satisfy the president, the associates said. Later in the dinner, Mr. Trump again said to Mr. Comey that he needed his loyalty.

    Mr. Comey again replied that he would give him “honesty” and did not pledge his loyalty, according to the account of the conversation.

    But Mr. Trump pressed him on whether it would be “honest loyalty.”

    “You will have that,” Mr. Comey told his associates he responded.

    Throughout his career, Mr. Trump has made loyalty from the people who work for him a key priority, often discharging employees he considers insufficiently reliable.

    As described by the two people, the dinner offers a window into Mr. Trump’s approach to the presidency, through Mr. Comey’s eyes. A businessman and reality television star who never served in public office, Mr. Trump may not have understood that by tradition, F.B.I. directors are not supposed to be political loyalists, which is why Congress in the 1970s passed a law giving them 10-year terms to make them independent of the president.

    Mr. Comey described details of his refusal to pledge his loyalty to Mr. Trump to several people close to him on the condition that they not discuss it publicly while he was F.B.I. director. But now that Mr. Comey has been fired, they felt free to discuss it on the condition of anonymity.

    A White House spokeswoman on Thursday disputed the description of the dinner by Mr. Comey’s associates.

    “We don’t believe this to be an accurate account,” said Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the deputy press secretary. “The integrity of our law enforcement agencies and their leadership is of the utmost importance to President Trump. He would never even suggest the expectation of personal loyalty, only loyalty to our country and its great people.”

    At the dinner described by Mr. Trump in his interview with NBC, the conversation with Mr. Comey was quite different. Mr. Trump told NBC that Mr. Comey requested it to ask to keep his job. Mr. Trump said he asked the F.B.I. director if he was under investigation, a question that legal experts called highly unusual if not improper. In Mr. Trump’s telling, Mr. Comey reassured him that he was not.

    Mr. Trump did not say whether he asked Mr. Comey for his loyalty. Asked at Wednesday’s White House news briefing whether loyalty was a factor in picking a new F.B.I. director, Ms. Sanders said Mr. Trump wanted someone who is “loyal to the justice system.”

    President Trump told NBC’s Lester Holt that the F.B.I. was in turmoil, and that he was going to fire its director, James B. Comey, regardless of any recommendation. By NBC NEWS. Photo by Doug Mills/The New York Times. Watch in Times Video »

    The dinner described by Mr. Comey’s associates came in the early days of Mr. Trump’s administration, as the F.B.I. was investigating Russian meddling in the election and possible ties to Mr. Trump’s campaign. That investigation has since gained momentum as investigators have developed new evidence and leads.

    Mr. Trump had met Mr. Comey for the first time in January, during the transition, when, along with the intelligence chiefs, the F.B.I. director presented him with evidence of that intervention. Mr. Comey was tasked by his fellow intelligence directors to also pull Mr. Trump aside and inform him about a secret dossier suggesting that Russia might have collected compromising information about him.

    The dinner at which the conversation Mr. Comey related took place was on Jan. 27, almost a month later. CNN reported on Thursday that Mr. Comey never gave Mr. Trump an assurance of his loyalty.

    Mr. Comey’s associates said that the new president requested the dinner he described, and said that he was wary about attending because he did not want to appear too chummy with Mr. Trump, especially amid the Russia investigation. But Mr. Comey went because he did not believe he could turn down a meeting with the new president.

    During the meal, according to the account of the two associates, Mr. Comey tried to explain to Mr. Trump how he saw his role as F.B.I. director. Mr. Comey told Mr. Trump that the country would be best served by an independent F.B.I. and Justice Department.

    In announcing Mr. Comey’s dismissal on Tuesday, the White House released documents from the attorney general and the deputy attorney general that outlined why Mr. Comey should be fired.

    Mr. Trump said in the NBC interview, “Regardless of recommendation, I was going to fire Comey.”

    “In fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said, you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story,” Mr. Trump said.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  4. #64
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Jeez,this is getting into Strangeland.We're gonna be looking for Red spies under the bed very soon.

    It's US &Russian official photographers.The Russians published the photos.If the Russian was SVR,the relevance is exactly 0.Zero.
    Because if somebody will tell me that Russians can bug the WH,I'm gonna die laughing at the ridiculous and completely unprofessional idea.The only thing such a moronic action will do is annoy Trump in a moment they're trying to somehow mend relations.
    First of all - a sane president wouldn't be inviting the Russian Foreign Minister and his ambassador to the US within hours of firing the man leading the Russiagate investigation.

    Secondly, there are in-house White House photographers. I'm sure in this technological age we're living in, a WH photographer can take pictures of the representatives of a hostile, adversarial power who have, quite insanely, been invited to be guests at the WH, and if they want photos, send them on their way with photos, taken by a WH photographer.

    Given the fact that Trump took phone calls and spoke in front of dozens of people at his Mar-a-lago estate regarding North Korea, I truly wouldn't put it past him to relax security measures for a so-called "personal photographer".

    Whether or not the SVR agent was surreptitiously taking photographs of sensitive things or not is immateriel - you don't allow SVR agents into the White House. An SVR agent can take entire legitimate photographs that we'd allow a British or German or Australian personal photographer to take - but before, between, and after taking photographs, the SVR agent is going to make as many observations as he possibly can whilst inside the White House.

    Even if security measures were not relaxed, I guarantee you the SVR agent walked out of the White House with valuable observations. Bugs need not be planted, nor surreptitious photographs taken for this to occur. Nice strawman though.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 12 May 17, at 16:51.

  5. #65
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    For posterity's sake:


  6. #66
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Mr. Trump did not say whether he asked Mr. Comey for his loyalty. Asked at Wednesday’s White House news briefing whether loyalty was a factor in picking a new F.B.I. director, Ms. Sanders said Mr. Trump wanted someone who is “loyal to the justice system.”
    Loyalty has been a very big deal with this man going back ages. Probably the number 1 way he judges you. Number 2 is likely to be can you make him money. If you can provide those two then you could probably be an axe murderer and he wouldn't fire you. This is how he does business in his eyes and as on The Apprentice he can just say you're fired. Clearly he thought he could bring this method with him to Washington. No surprise since the man feels he is never wrong therefore I always right about MY methods. I don't believe that perception of his will ever change. Can't admit a mistake and instead double down every time trying to bluff his way out. Maybe in business but not in Washington where he can't simply fire those who disagree and who have power enough to counter him. The fact, that someone who might have power equal to him, must gall him immensely. He used to be a big fish in a little pond but not now...

  7. #67
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Loyalty has been a very big deal with this man going back ages. Probably the number 1 way he judges you. Number 2 is likely to be can you make him money. If you can provide those two then you could probably be an axe murderer and he wouldn't fire you. This is how he does business in his eyes and as on The Apprentice he can just say you're fired. Clearly he thought he could bring this method with him to Washington. No surprise since the man feels he is never wrong therefore I always right about MY methods. I don't believe that perception of his will ever change. Can't admit a mistake and instead double down every time trying to bluff his way out. Maybe in business but not in Washington where he can't simply fire those who disagree and who have power enough to counter him. The fact, that someone who might have power equal to him, must gall him immensely. He used to be a big fish in a little pond but not now...
    Now he is the biggest fish in the largest pond.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  8. #68
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    First of all - a sane president wouldn't be inviting the Russian Foreign Minister and his ambassador to the US within hours of firing the man leading the Russiagate investigation.

    Secondly, there are in-house White House photographers. I'm sure in this technological age we're living in, a WH photographer can take pictures of the representatives of a hostile, adversarial power who have, quite insanely, been invited to be guests at the WH, and if they want photos, send them on their way with photos, taken by a WH photographer.

    Given the fact that Trump took phone calls and spoke in front of dozens of people at his Mar-a-lago estate regarding North Korea, I truly wouldn't put it past him to relax security measures for a so-called "personal photographer".

    Whether or not the SVR agent was surreptitiously taking photographs of sensitive things or not is immateriel - you don't allow SVR agents into the White House. An SVR agent can take entire legitimate photographs that we'd allow a British or German or Australian personal photographer to take - but before, between, and after taking photographs, the SVR agent is going to make as many observations as he possibly can whilst inside the White House.

    Even if security measures were not relaxed, I guarantee you the SVR agent walked out of the White House with valuable observations. Bugs need not be planted, nor surreptitious photographs taken for this to occur. Nice strawman though.
    Replying to myself here - I have additional thoughts to offer.

    First of all, I cannot prove that the "personal photographers" are SVR agents. I haven't questioned, interrogated, or interviewed these individuals. Nor did I pat the "personal photographers" down or search their persons. I didn't observe their actions while they were in the White House. I am not a firsthand witness to the Lavrov/Kislayak visit to the White House, that came on the heels of the firing of Comey.

    I am not the only person here who considers what I've stated to be a possibility/probability. It's simply the case, that certain people may withhold comment, because they cannot prove it.

    I live in a backwater, second-rate Midwestern metropolis, I'm commenting in my capacity as a private citizen, and have I nothing to lose by calling a spade a spade, and stating outright and upfront what I believe.the case is here.

    That being said, what I'm stating isn't a half-baked theory, an unfounded assumption, or a conspiracy theory.

    What I've stated with regards to these matters, it is simply a commentary/reflection on how the Russians are known to operate. This is their modus operandi, this is how they do things, and if those "personal photographers" weren't SVR agents, then the Russians went against their own M.O. and decided this one time out of million, to make a conscious, concerted effort not to send SVR agents into the White House.

    The natural thing for the Russians to do automatically, naturally, reflexively, even almost involuntarily, without giving it a second thought, is to send in SVR agents with a cover story in these circumstances.

    Planting bugs and utilizing microcameras or recording devices is not even remotely necessary in these circumstances, a skilled HUMINT agent only needs their eyeballs and a brain to walk out of the White House with a major intelligence coup.

    Eyeballs and a trained, experienced, intelligent mind are the most devastatingly effective intelligence tool that has ever or will ever exist, and the Russians have these in spades.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 12 May 17, at 19:21.

  9. #69
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    The natural thing for the Russians to do automatically, naturally, reflexively, even almost involuntarily, without giving it a second thought, is to send in SVR agents with a cover story in these circumstances.

    Planting bugs and utilizing microcameras or recording devices is not even remotely necessary in these circumstances, a skilled HUMINT agent only needs their eyeballs and a brain to walk out of the White House with a major intelligence coup.
    Yeah, I suppose Russian interior decorators would welcome knowing all about the decor items in the Oval office, and what better way to get it than to send in an SVR agent with a camera.

    Seriously, do you believe having a Russia photographer in the Oval office to snap pictures of Lavrov and Trump shaking hands is a big deal?

    The big deal is that Trump barred photographers from domestic media outlets. If he hadn't, the Russian photographer would have been just one of the crowd.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  10. #70
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    Yeah, I suppose Russian interior decorators would welcome knowing all about the decor items in the Oval office, and what better way to get it than to send in an SVR agent with a camera.

    Seriously, do you believe having a Russia photographer in the Oval office to snap pictures of Lavrov and Trump shaking hands is a big deal?

    The big deal is that Trump barred photographers from domestic media outlets. If he hadn't, the Russian photographer would have been just one of the crowd.
    Yes, given how lax Trump has been regarding information security, how lax he is with regards to what he says, does, and leaves lying around when he believes he's in the company of friends, the Mar-a-Lago North Korea phone calls being a case in point, I think it's a big deal.

    I agree with your point regarding domestic media outlets and their access, it's also a big deal. Just because that is such a big deal, doesn't make allowing potential Russian intelligence agents under lax and unprofessional circumstances into the White House a small deal.

    You might assign a different weight and priorities to the relative importance/relevance of these various things, but I believe it's an error to outright dismiss other matters as some unimportant, irrelevant, non-factor type of thing.

    Photographing things isn't necessary - it could very well detract from the mission of a potential SVR agent - though given Trump's history, it wouldn't even surprise me if bestowed the freedom of the city on his guests, let them show themselves around. I doubt that happened, but it wouldn't surprise me.

    That being said, I have more concerns about the eyeballs of the "personal photographers", and the brain behind those eyes. I'd be curious to know where these "photographers" went in the White House, and if they were vetted by the FBI/CIA before entering the White House, or whether it was just an open house invitation on behalf of Trump to the Russians.

    This isn't the Reagan or Bush White House, or even the Clinton or Obama White House we're talking about here. It's the Trump White House, and the rules that apply, and ways of doing things, are from an entirely different, alternate reality, not even remotely like any other White House in living memory.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 12 May 17, at 19:52.

  11. #71
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    And you have implied a good point - discussing other angles of these matters is more important than discussing things that potentially or probably occured, but cannot be proven, for which we have no firsthand or even second/thirdhand evidence of (yet).

    I said what I had to say, and I'll drop the SVR angle, as discussing it any further will detract from and steal the limelight from more cogent lines of discussion. I don't want to hijack this thread with something that probably occurred, but I cannot yet back up with any evidence.

  12. #72
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Now he is the biggest fish in the largest pond.
    No, he thinks he is the biggest fish in the biggest pond but is just an Emperor without clothes. Although right now he is more like Nemo hiding inside the dive helmet avoiding all contact except by tweets. Some Commander-in-Chief.

  13. #73
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    This photographer, if he had any links to any Muscovite intel agencies (and I agree he probably did) was almost certainly not SVR but GRU. The difference between the two is really what their objectives are and thus how they are used. SVR are more covert - all the 'illegals' and long term plants plus those working on diplomatic missions will be SVR run whereas GRU are used on more 'one off' and less covert assignments - Igor Girkin in Donbass was GRU not SVR. SVR operatives are therefore regarded as higher value because their assignments are supposed to be long term so to use an SVR operative on a stunt like this would be a waste as he is likely to be 'PNG'ed' fairly quickly after. Just so we get what we are discussing right...

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    z,



    then what you're saying is that the FBI is a politically compromised organization that is no longer capable of doing a fair investigation. all the more reason for an independent investigator.
    Nope, not until after the investigations of the IRS for targeting the Tea Party and Hillary Clinton's email server, and of the Clinton Foundation.



    we're not talking about the media here.
    Of course we are, the sooner you grasp that the sooner you'll get it. The Russia, Russia, Russia meme being pushed by the media stands in direct opposition to the way the media buried anything that might hurt the Dems. Everything is about the media to Trump supporters. Unless you can restore media credibility with them, you can't get at him.

  15. #75
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    I was under impression that you don't need an official visit to spy on WH administration or the DoS.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/state-dept-...ry?id=29624866
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