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Thread: Director Comey fired

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan m View Post
    Can you substantiate that?
    Name one Leftist political rally shut down or even seriously disrupted by the Rightwing. On the Left we have how many riots by BLM, how many Trump rallies and conservative speaking engagements attacked by the anti-fa, we have tapes of the Left planning to disrupt rallies and town halls. Rightwing violence in the US is relatively rare and tends towards racist or religious not political.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post

    there are a multitude of ways he could address this perception issue of a coverup...you know, the whole independent prosecutor. or an independent commission.

    or as a smaller step, just releasing his tax returns.

    funny how those steps haven't been taken, eh?
    Why should he take those steps? The Left in this country has made it clear that nothing he does will ever be enough. When confronted with a rigged game you have two choices. Play, knowing you will lose anyway (normal republican answer), or walk away from the game and refuse to play at all.

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    1.) because collusion with Russia is not a game, and 2.) if he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to do lose via an independent prosecutor or commission.

    in fact, if an independent prosecutor looks into it and finds there's nothing there, he will have political ammo to state that he was right all along and that this was just a witch-hunt by Dems.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    1.) because collusion with Russia is not a game, and 2.) if he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to do lose via an independent prosecutor or commission.
    Zero evidence of collusion. Russia did not cost Clinton the election, they didn't make her not campaign vigorously, or fail to defend blue state turf, they didn't suppress the black vote, make her stumble and nearly pass out getting into a van, didn't make her cackle and insult millions of Americans.... At best we have a former general who reported meeting with the Russians but ommitted a single $33k payment for a speech. The Clinton's had to have their foundation file 4 years of amended returns to properly list foreign money they received. All through the recent campaign Clinton's senior adviser (Podesta) was hiding millions in Russian money.

    in fact, if an independent prosecutor looks into it and finds there's nothing there, he will have political ammo to state that he was right all along and that this was just a witch-hunt by Dems.
    Congress let the independent counsel law expire for a reason. It became just another tool of political warfare. Where were the calls for independent investigations in to the IRS scandal when the government used its power to tax to target speech it didn't like? To investigate the Iran deal, Clinton emails, The AG meeting with the husband of a target of a federal criminal probe....

    Me thinks you doth protest too much.....

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    JAD,

    Asty:

    Yeah, I'm sure there are lots of ways to hold a credible investigation, and having an independent prosecutor is one, but you know the pitfalls of that route: endless and aimless investigating, and just the name "prosecutor" implies crimes were committed. I trust the Hill and the FBI are capable of a thorough investigation and if the dems don't like it....well, they don't like anything having to do with Trump these days, seeing as how they're too focused on making political hay these days when we really need to focus on running the country.
    well, then, if Trump decides it was in his best interest to fire Comey, and if he has no interest in taking other steps that would ameliorate the perception issue, then he has no one but himself to blame if the optics continue to look bad for him.

    as you see with my response z above, we're pretty much on the same page.

    it's increasingly clear now that this was at the very least a case of Trump pursuing a personal vendetta against Comey, and that Trump was 1.) surprised that there was a political cost involved (he thought everyone would be happy with the move) and 2.) didn't bother to think through the perception issue.

    past the perception thing, I mentioned earlier that Trump pretty much made himself persona non grata with a lot of FBI agents...plus undoubtedly the personal enmity of Comey, whom was fired in pretty much the most humiliating way possible. I rather agree with you that the FBI investigation will do quite a thorough investigation-- even if Trump ends up cramming through a new, more favorable FBI director, there's still going to be a lot of people whom will now have a more personal interest in making sure that nothing is swept under the rug.

    same thing with Deputy AG Rosenstein, on a different level. pretty sure he realized by now how he was used as a patsy, and will have that much more incentive to prove his independence now.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    z,

    ero evidence of collusion. Russia did not cost Clinton the election, they didn't make her not campaign vigorously, or fail to defend blue state turf, they didn't suppress the black vote, make her stumble and nearly pass out getting into a van, didn't make her cackle and insult millions of Americans.... At best we have a former general who reported meeting with the Russians but ommitted a single $33k payment for a speech. The Clinton's had to have their foundation file 4 years of amended returns to properly list foreign money they received. All through the recent campaign Clinton's senior adviser (Podesta) was hiding millions in Russian money.
    you're not listening to me. i'm not saying that it happened-- that's what the investigation is for. what i'm saying is that the charges against his associates are serious enough where they have merited a long, accelerating FBI investigation. that's not "nothing".

    in any case, everything I mentioned regarding an independent commission/investigator will likely not happen because the Republican Congress under McConnell isn't interested-- and that's also because POTUS isn't interested. that's fine, I put my trust in the FBI to do a proper investigation.

    I think this is short-sighted politically for the Republicans, because if they truly believe that Trump has absolutely no connection whatsoever with the Russians, then they take the perception hit for nothing.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    now POTUS is denying that his original assertion that it was Deputy AG Rosenstein's recommendation that drove the Comey firing-- that he had wanted to do it from the beginning and would have done it regardless of the recommendations coming his way.
    Proof to the world that there is evolution...

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    z,



    you're not listening to me.
    I am listening, I'm saying it doesn't matter becuase its rigged game by people who had zero interest in justice when their side was in power..


    I think this is short-sighted politically for the Republicans, because if they truly believe that Trump has absolutely no connection whatsoever with the Russians, then they take the perception hit for nothing.

    The Coasts perception of the GOP won't hurt them come election time. Take a trip through the interior and ask people who they distrust more Trump or any media elite.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    So those weren't Russian journalists photographing Trump with Lavrov and Kislayak, rather, it was Lavrov/Kislayak's personal photographers. Like that somehow makes everything OK.

    Having the "personal photographer" of the Russian Foreign Minister in the White House strikes me as being even worse than it being an RT or other Kremlin-funded mouthpiece photojournalist.

    Knowing what I do about the Russians, Lavrov's personal photographer was probably an SVR agent. In the White House. With a camera.
    Jeez,this is getting into Strangeland.We're gonna be looking for Red spies under the bed very soon.

    It's US &Russian official photographers.The Russians published the photos.If the Russian was SVR,the relevance is exactly 0.Zero.
    Because if somebody will tell me that Russians can bug the WH,I'm gonna die laughing at the ridiculous and completely unprofessional idea.The only thing such a moronic action will do is annoy Trump in a moment they're trying to somehow mend relations.
    Those who know don't speak
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  10. #55
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    JAD,



    well, then, if Trump decides it was in his best interest to fire Comey, and if he has no interest in taking other steps that would ameliorate the perception issue, then he has no one but himself to blame if the optics continue to look bad for him.

    as you see with my response z above, we're pretty much on the same page.

    it's increasingly clear now that this was at the very least a case of Trump pursuing a personal vendetta against Comey, and that Trump was 1.) surprised that there was a political cost involved (he thought everyone would be happy with the move) and 2.) didn't bother to think through the perception issue.

    past the perception thing, I mentioned earlier that Trump pretty much made himself persona non grata with a lot of FBI agents...plus undoubtedly the personal enmity of Comey, whom was fired in pretty much the most humiliating way possible. I rather agree with you that the FBI investigation will do quite a thorough investigation-- even if Trump ends up cramming through a new, more favorable FBI director, there's still going to be a lot of people whom will now have a more personal interest in making sure that nothing is swept under the rug.

    same thing with Deputy AG Rosenstein, on a different level. pretty sure he realized by now how he was used as a patsy, and will have that much more incentive to prove his independence now.
    These people had 1 year so far to discover whatever there was,even longer if routine surveillance of key individuals was undertaken.As it should have been the case.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  11. #56
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    Hey folks!

    Long time no login!

    -dale

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    So, when is Trump banning the guns to see the Dems defending the 2nd?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  13. #58
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Speaking of optics, what do you think of the 3-for-1 Lavrov, Kislayak, Kissinger visit the day after Comey was fired?
    What's he supposed to do? Tell Lavrov, 'sorry can't meet with you tomorrow 'cause I'm going to fire the director of the FBI today.'

    I'm about timing that throws the best light possible on a situation. Trump on the other hand follows the P.T. Barnum rule: there's no such thing as bad publicity.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Zero evidence of collusion.... At best we have a former general who reported meeting with the Russians but ommitted a single $33k payment for a speech.
    Hmm Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Carter Page, Cohen, Flynn (hardly just some "former general" when he was appointed NSA) and Kushner, hell Kislyak was at the Republican Convention - not to mention Muscovite comments such as Ryabkov (deputy foreign minister) saying "there were contacts" with the Trump team during the campaign or the data or the money or Trump himself publicly calling for the Muscovites to get involved in finding Clinton's emails or his sons bragging about lots of finance from Moscow... I do not call the whole sordid business as one where there is "zero evidence". However if you cannot accept ALL your intelligence agencies agreeing that there was a Muscovite attempt to interfere in your (and other) elections with the specific purpose of benefitting the Trump campaign...

    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    What's he supposed to do? Tell Lavrov, 'sorry can't meet with you tomorrow 'cause I'm going to fire the director of the FBI today.'
    Yes! Meeting with the Foreign Minister of a country who has attacked your election process and broken all international laws from the Helsiniki accords to committing indiscriminate bombing in Syria and shooting down civilian airliners - in the White House itself - legitimises their actions. Moscow has been after that for years but even Obama had the sense to steer clear. Now he just looks like an idiot who got played, which is probably about the truth of what he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Hey folks!

    Long time no login!

    -dale
    Hi

  15. #60
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    z,

    I am listening, I'm saying it doesn't matter becuase its rigged game by people who had zero interest in justice when their side was in power..
    then what you're saying is that the FBI is a politically compromised organization that is no longer capable of doing a fair investigation. all the more reason for an independent investigator.

    Take a trip through the interior and ask people who they distrust more Trump or any media elite.
    we're not talking about the media here.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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