Originally posted by dan m
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Originally posted by astralis View Post
there are a multitude of ways he could address this perception issue of a coverup...you know, the whole independent prosecutor. or an independent commission.
or as a smaller step, just releasing his tax returns.
funny how those steps haven't been taken, eh?
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1.) because collusion with Russia is not a game, and 2.) if he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to do lose via an independent prosecutor or commission.
in fact, if an independent prosecutor looks into it and finds there's nothing there, he will have political ammo to state that he was right all along and that this was just a witch-hunt by Dems.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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Originally posted by astralis View Post1.) because collusion with Russia is not a game, and 2.) if he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to do lose via an independent prosecutor or commission.
in fact, if an independent prosecutor looks into it and finds there's nothing there, he will have political ammo to state that he was right all along and that this was just a witch-hunt by Dems.
Me thinks you doth protest too much.....
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JAD,
Asty:
Yeah, I'm sure there are lots of ways to hold a credible investigation, and having an independent prosecutor is one, but you know the pitfalls of that route: endless and aimless investigating, and just the name "prosecutor" implies crimes were committed. I trust the Hill and the FBI are capable of a thorough investigation and if the dems don't like it....well, they don't like anything having to do with Trump these days, seeing as how they're too focused on making political hay these days when we really need to focus on running the country.
as you see with my response z above, we're pretty much on the same page.
it's increasingly clear now that this was at the very least a case of Trump pursuing a personal vendetta against Comey, and that Trump was 1.) surprised that there was a political cost involved (he thought everyone would be happy with the move) and 2.) didn't bother to think through the perception issue.
past the perception thing, I mentioned earlier that Trump pretty much made himself persona non grata with a lot of FBI agents...plus undoubtedly the personal enmity of Comey, whom was fired in pretty much the most humiliating way possible. I rather agree with you that the FBI investigation will do quite a thorough investigation-- even if Trump ends up cramming through a new, more favorable FBI director, there's still going to be a lot of people whom will now have a more personal interest in making sure that nothing is swept under the rug.
same thing with Deputy AG Rosenstein, on a different level. pretty sure he realized by now how he was used as a patsy, and will have that much more incentive to prove his independence now.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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z,
ero evidence of collusion. Russia did not cost Clinton the election, they didn't make her not campaign vigorously, or fail to defend blue state turf, they didn't suppress the black vote, make her stumble and nearly pass out getting into a van, didn't make her cackle and insult millions of Americans.... At best we have a former general who reported meeting with the Russians but ommitted a single $33k payment for a speech. The Clinton's had to have their foundation file 4 years of amended returns to properly list foreign money they received. All through the recent campaign Clinton's senior adviser (Podesta) was hiding millions in Russian money.
in any case, everything I mentioned regarding an independent commission/investigator will likely not happen because the Republican Congress under McConnell isn't interested-- and that's also because POTUS isn't interested. that's fine, I put my trust in the FBI to do a proper investigation.
I think this is short-sighted politically for the Republicans, because if they truly believe that Trump has absolutely no connection whatsoever with the Russians, then they take the perception hit for nothing.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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Originally posted by astralis View Postnow POTUS is denying that his original assertion that it was Deputy AG Rosenstein's recommendation that drove the Comey firing-- that he had wanted to do it from the beginning and would have done it regardless of the recommendations coming his way.
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Originally posted by astralis View Postz,
you're not listening to me.
I think this is short-sighted politically for the Republicans, because if they truly believe that Trump has absolutely no connection whatsoever with the Russians, then they take the perception hit for nothing.
The Coasts perception of the GOP won't hurt them come election time. Take a trip through the interior and ask people who they distrust more Trump or any media elite.
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Originally posted by Ironduke View PostSo those weren't Russian journalists photographing Trump with Lavrov and Kislayak, rather, it was Lavrov/Kislayak's personal photographers. Like that somehow makes everything OK.
Having the "personal photographer" of the Russian Foreign Minister in the White House strikes me as being even worse than it being an RT or other Kremlin-funded mouthpiece photojournalist.
Knowing what I do about the Russians, Lavrov's personal photographer was probably an SVR agent. In the White House. With a camera.
It's US &Russian official photographers.The Russians published the photos.If the Russian was SVR,the relevance is exactly 0.Zero.
Because if somebody will tell me that Russians can bug the WH,I'm gonna die laughing at the ridiculous and completely unprofessional idea.The only thing such a moronic action will do is annoy Trump in a moment they're trying to somehow mend relations.Those who know don't speak
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
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Originally posted by astralis View PostJAD,
well, then, if Trump decides it was in his best interest to fire Comey, and if he has no interest in taking other steps that would ameliorate the perception issue, then he has no one but himself to blame if the optics continue to look bad for him.
as you see with my response z above, we're pretty much on the same page.
it's increasingly clear now that this was at the very least a case of Trump pursuing a personal vendetta against Comey, and that Trump was 1.) surprised that there was a political cost involved (he thought everyone would be happy with the move) and 2.) didn't bother to think through the perception issue.
past the perception thing, I mentioned earlier that Trump pretty much made himself persona non grata with a lot of FBI agents...plus undoubtedly the personal enmity of Comey, whom was fired in pretty much the most humiliating way possible. I rather agree with you that the FBI investigation will do quite a thorough investigation-- even if Trump ends up cramming through a new, more favorable FBI director, there's still going to be a lot of people whom will now have a more personal interest in making sure that nothing is swept under the rug.
same thing with Deputy AG Rosenstein, on a different level. pretty sure he realized by now how he was used as a patsy, and will have that much more incentive to prove his independence now.Those who know don't speak
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
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Originally posted by Ironduke View PostSpeaking of optics, what do you think of the 3-for-1 Lavrov, Kislayak, Kissinger visit the day after Comey was fired?
I'm about timing that throws the best light possible on a situation. Trump on the other hand follows the P.T. Barnum rule: there's no such thing as bad publicity.To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
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Originally posted by zraver View PostZero evidence of collusion.... At best we have a former general who reported meeting with the Russians but ommitted a single $33k payment for a speech.
Originally posted by JAD_333 View PostWhat's he supposed to do? Tell Lavrov, 'sorry can't meet with you tomorrow 'cause I'm going to fire the director of the FBI today.'
Originally posted by dalem View PostHey folks!
Long time no login!
-dale
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z,
I am listening, I'm saying it doesn't matter becuase its rigged game by people who had zero interest in justice when their side was in power..
Take a trip through the interior and ask people who they distrust more Trump or any media elite.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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