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Thread: Director Comey fired

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    CrowdStrike did a forensic exam and the FBI appears to be satisfied with it. Some of these cyber security outfits are pretty good at what they do.

    Hack or leak? If it was a leak, it was probably a download to a thumb drive. A 64g thumb drive would hold all the emails Wikileaks released and then some, there being on average about 2,850 e-mails in a gig. A leaker wouldn't forward the emails on line because that volume would raise incursion alarms. But a hack requires downloading via the internet, and 60-80k of outgoing docs is going to raise alarms. How else did the FBI know something was amiss with the DNC's servers? A download to a thumb drive they wouldn't detect. So I think the leaker theory is pretty weak.
    Technically, a download to a thumb drive is easily detectable if you're set up to monitor such.

  2. #302
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    JAD,

    I don't think Trump Jr. had any idea of the snake's nest he was walking into, and should be grateful that it was just a lobbyist plumping to get the Magnitsky act overturned.
    it takes a pretty incredible combination of lack of ethics and stupidity to do this. if nothing else, this demonstrated his -willingness- to collude.

    and not just Jr alone, but Kushner and Manafort.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    JAD,



    it takes a pretty incredible combination of lack of ethics and stupidity to do this. if nothing else, this demonstrated his -willingness- to collude.

    and not just Jr alone, but Kushner and Manafort.
    no it doesn't.

    he's sitting in a meeting to collect opposition research from an outsider.

    happens all the time.

  4. #304
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    bfng,

    he's sitting in a meeting to collect opposition research from an outsider.

    happens all the time.
    collecting oppo research that's purported to be sourced from foreign governments happens all the time?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  5. #305
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    Now we are getting the "collusion is not a crime" defence. Well sorry but treason has to be.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    bfng,



    collecting oppo research that's purported to be sourced from foreign governments happens all the time?
    Yup... Information gathering is not illegal. I will point out again the DNC working hand in hand with the Ukrainian embassy.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Now we are getting the "collusion is not a crime" defence. Well sorry but treason has to be.
    Not treason, not even close. Treason is the only specific crime defined in the US Constitution. It is defined as; Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

    Getting information on a political opponent is not treason, not even when presumably given by a hostile power.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    Yes, he went to the meeting thinking the dirt on Clinton was coming from the Russian government because that's what Goldstone told him in the e-mail. That, however, as any legal expert would tell us, is not evidence that Russia was in fact attempting to help the Trump campaign.
    I'm not trying to claim it is. I'm just pointing out it is evidence that Junior thought Russia was trying to help, as did the two senior campaign officials (one how a senior White House figure) who went with him.

    Don't get me wrong. I am only focusing on the e-mail's veracity. In the overall scheme of things, Russia may well have attempted to help Trump. Also, Trump jr's readiness to receive dirt on Clinton from what he thought was coming from the Russian government has an air of potential collusion about it. Supposing dirt on Clinton was delivered and supposing Russia was the source, what would have come next? More requests from Trump jr to Russia for information? Russia asking for a favor in return? The hole would just get deeper. I don't think Trump Jr. had any idea of the snake's nest he was walking into, and should be grateful that it was just a lobbyist plumping to get the Magnitsky act overturned.
    Junior might have been in over his head, but the other two who went with him weren't. They knew exactly what they were doing. Why weren't they vigorously counselling Junior against this? 'Bosses son' might explain it, but Kushner's presence undermines that. So do the other meetings that went on between Trump people & connections Trump people had with Russia.


    He was told the ostensible source was the government of Russia. It's in the Goldstone e-mail.
    Sorry, poorly written on my part. I meant that there is no suggestion yet that anyone was informed it might be from a hack, so no reason yet to believe hacking would enter into Trump's calculations when boasting about the information he had.


    It appears you have a point, but not one explainable in terms of context. I'm stuck on the idea that at the time Trump jr took the meeting, there was relatively little PUBLIC awareness of Russia's involvement. So his antenna was not raised as it would be today. But you seem to be saying that Trump jr's meeting was an indication that "collusion" was already underway, and it's only surfacing now. I don't want to set up a strawman here. So I'll let you clarify what you meant.
    I was pointing out a viable alternative reading of facts to your own version. I'm not claiming its true, but it is at least as likely. Whether or not the meeting suggests collusion was underway, I think it does suggest a comfort in highly questionable dealings with the Russian government.

    The point of my original post is that this new information further erodes claims that all the contacts with people connected to the Russian government were completely innocent. The 'nothing to see here' attitude simply isn't supported by the facts any more. There may not be evidence of a crime, but you know better than most that criminal behaviour is only one of the issues here. The idea that senior members of a Presidential campaign would do this is virtually beyond belief....and we haven't seen all the info Mueller has yet.


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  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
    If you believe this did not give Moscow "aid and comfort" you are on drugs or something. For a start Manafort (who was already theirs), Kushner and little Trump were compromised; that is why I question who leaked about this meeting considering Moscow is getting very impatient about it's 'compounds'. If they do not get their houses back do we get more?

    This whole administration has been compromised from the start but don't let bother you - you're a fine patriot no doubt.

    Edit: Just got sent this article from which I quote a small part;

    Mother Jones: If you were involved in the Trump-Russia investigation, who or what would you hone in on?

    Steven Hall: Mike Flynn, no doubt. It’s fun to think about what I would do if I was a Russian intelligence officer in charge of running these various operations. Not just the influence operation, which it’s quite clear now was pretty successful in increasing the likelihood that Donald Trump would be elected. But if I was the SVR [Russian foreign intelligence] guy who was told, “Okay, your job is to try to find whether there are members of the campaign who would be willing to play ball with us,” No. 1 on my list would be Flynn. First of all, he’s a former chief of the DIA [Defense Intelligence Agency]. He’s an intelligence officer, so he understands how discreet and clandestine you need to be if you’re going to cooperate on that level. And then, there’s the future: He’s probably going to land a pretty good job, assuming Trump wins. So it’s a win-win-win in terms of targeting Flynn. Furthermore, he’s come to Moscow. He’s accepted money from Russian companies, and he’s tried to conceal that. So on paper, he’s a really good-looking candidate for a spy.
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ganda-warfare/
    Last edited by snapper; 18 Jul 17, at 17:05.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Not treason, not even close. Treason is the only specific crime defined in the US Constitution. It is defined as; Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

    Getting information on a political opponent is not treason, not even when presumably given by a hostile power.
    Which is exactly why I didn't use the word treason but used the word collaborator. They were willing to collaborate with a known sworn adversary of the United States just as you seem to be willing to accept it, given your excuses, which would put you in the same boat as them.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    bfng,



    collecting oppo research that's purported to be sourced from foreign governments happens all the time?
    'purported'....... my new favorite word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfng3569 View Post
    'purported'....... my new favorite word.
    Have you even read the email titles? Lord have patience...

  13. #313
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    Browder (the Magnitsy Act guy) on Veselnitskaya (the 'lawyer'):

    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/bill-b...mp-jr-meeting/

    Some lawyer. I do not get any money from it but I do recommend his book.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    If you believe this did not give Moscow "aid and comfort" you are on drugs or something.
    We are not at war with Russia, not even close to war with Russia. Treason in the US is a very specific term.

    tbm3fan

    Which is exactly why I didn't use the word treason but used the word collaborator. They were willing to collaborate with a known sworn adversary of the United States just as you seem to be willing to accept it, given your excuses, which would put you in the same boat as them
    What did they collaborate on? So far there is zero evidence of direct links between the Trump Campaign and Russia. The smoking gun as it seems to be is the Trump team was willing to accept dirt on HRC. Oh golly, on no, what ever shall we do, oh wait, the HRC team was actually accepting dirt on Trump from a different foreign government.

    When you have some proof let me know.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    When you have some proof let me know.
    Where have I heard that before?

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