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  • Originally posted by snapper View Post
    So are you seriously trying to tell me that this traitorous fool is above the law that derives from the Constitution he swore to uphold? He can pardon himself for collusion with a foreign power in influencing the democratic process and obstruction of justice to cover up his collusion? The man is a traitor and a buffoon and the sooner he ends in prison the better. If your justice system cannot at present do this change it fast.
    Where do you get this stuff from? Did you even watch the testimony? Apparently not. Do you just make this stuff up?

    Apparently whatever source you use didn't bother to mention that Comey's testimony confirmed multiple times that the pres was never even under investigation. Does that fact mean anything to you or are you just going to keep spewing the same shit?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
      He did not collude with Russia. He is not a traitor. His power of pardon is absolute.
      That your faith in his patriotism is touching it does not sway my knowledge of his collusion. If he just released his full tax returns it would provide grounds for his removal. But what you are actually arguing is that an executive can pardon itself and if that is truly so dictatorship must follow - and that worries me far more - for your sake included. No man or Lady can self pardon or else they are above the law which applies equally to ALL. If he murders someone before honest witnesses he can pardon himself? Are you serious? If so your justice system needs serious overhaul.

      Originally posted by Wooglin View Post
      Where do you get this stuff from? Did you even watch the testimony? Apparently not. Do you just make this stuff up?

      Apparently whatever source you use didn't bother to mention that Comey's testimony confirmed multiple times that the pres was never even under investigation. Does that fact mean anything to you or are you just going to keep spewing the same shit?
      Comey to be fair was lenient on your Agent Orange. He clearly regarded him as capable of brazenly lying and of collusion and of attempting to obstruct justice. If you wish to believe Muscovite inspired Trumpetian spiel in total and directly disregard all the evidence - much of which has still to be spilt - be my guest. I cannot help you.

      What we were speaking of though is if the rule of law applies equally to all... would you agree that it should? Or perhaps that the singular 'pussy grabber' and former TV personality/'celebrity', narcissist liar, former bankrupt etc etc is alone in this special category and may murder anyone he wishes? I pray he does not light upon you in advance.
      Last edited by snapper; 10 Jun 17,, 04:51.

      Comment


      • That your faith in his patriotism is touching it does not sway my knowledge of his collusion. If he just released his full tax returns it would provide grounds for his removal. But what you are actually arguing is that an executive can pardon itself and if that is truly so dictatorship must follow - and that worries me far more - for your sake included. No man or Lady can self pardon or else they are above the law which applies equally to ALL. If he murders someone before honest witnesses he can pardon himself? Are you serious? If so your justice system needs serious overhaul.
        1. You have very little idea about our system of government.
        2. Your "knowledge of his collusion" appears more a subjective and totally unsubstantiated opinion, based mainly on you not liking that he wants to improve ties with Russia.

        Comey to be fair was lenient on your Agent Orange. He clearly regarded him as capable of brazenly lying and of collusion and of attempting to obstruct just
        Hollywood Comey pretty much buried the issue.

        The challenge, and I’m not picking on reporters about writing stories about classified information, is the people talking about it often don’t really know what’s going on, and going on are not talking about it. We don’t call the press to say, hey, you don’t that thing wrong about the sensitive topic. We have to leave it there.
        Last edited by troung; 10 Jun 17,, 05:24.
        To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

        Comment


        • So,the whole Russian conspiracy hoopla turns to be bereft of evidence.
          The whole affair was nothing but political charade.What a surprise!

          What is significant is the degree of viciousness of internal US politics.That is hardly an encouraging sign.
          Those who know don't speak
          He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

          Comment


          • Of course he could just release his tax returns and behold! All would be good. But he will not. Why? Perhaps he could explain why his son in law wished to set up a 'back channel' via the Muscovite Embassy as well? Why so many of his appointees have had concealed discussions with Moscow? Deny that that Moscow tried to interfere in your democratic process? Pigs may fly when dropped from a plane but this is not that sort of pig. It is treason.

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            • Btw,keeping with the idea.I don't think Kushner really works for Trump.Talking about webs :)
              Those who know don't speak
              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

              Comment


              • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                He did not collude with Russia. He is not a traitor. His power of pardon is absolute.
                I think you are conflating several things. That the US president may theoretically pardon himself does not imply that he can commit no crimes; that a person is pardoned of a crime creates no statement regarding the validity of the law itself.

                After all, the president can theoretically pardon anyone of any crimes whatsoever; that does not mean there are no laws or crimes in America.

                Also, the president has no power to pardon himself from impeachment. Additionally, the allegation is not that Trump had lawfully ordered the investigation to cease; it is that he tried to influence its outcome by thinly veiled threats and demands that the FBI director should kiss the ring.

                In fact, an official may commit the crime of obstruction by closing an investigation, even if he or she is authorized to do so.

                As for alleged collusion with Russia, that chapter of US history hasn't been written.
                Last edited by Triple C; 10 Jun 17,, 11:03.
                All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  He did not collude with Russia. He is not a traitor. His power of pardon is absolute.
                  Careful you don't choke when chugging that Kool Aid
                  Trust me?
                  I'm an economist!

                  Comment


                  • So when will leaker Comey be indicted? He may be able to provide some helpful tips to Ms. Reality Winner to be a bit more covert about leaking government information?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                      That your faith in his patriotism is touching it does not sway my knowledge of his collusion. If he just released his full tax returns it would provide grounds for his removal. But what you are actually arguing is that an executive can pardon itself and if that is truly so dictatorship must follow - and that worries me far more - for your sake included. No man or Lady can self pardon or else they are above the law which applies equally to ALL. If he murders someone before honest witnesses he can pardon himself? Are you serious? If so your justice system needs serious overhaul.



                      Comey to be fair was lenient on your Agent Orange. He clearly regarded him as capable of brazenly lying and of collusion and of attempting to obstruct justice. If you wish to believe Muscovite inspired Trumpetian spiel in total and directly disregard all the evidence - much of which has still to be spilt - be my guest. I cannot help you.

                      What we were speaking of though is if the rule of law applies equally to all... would you agree that it should? Or perhaps that the singular 'pussy grabber' and former TV personality/'celebrity', narcissist liar, former bankrupt etc etc is alone in this special category and may murder anyone he wishes? I pray he does not light upon you in advance.
                      so you have the evidence of this collusion that no one else has?????

                      awesome! about time we got some facts in this case.

                      so what are they?

                      what is your evidence and your knowledge of this collusion? and when will you be testifying before congress, I am sure they are eager for actual facts.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                        GVChamp,



                        or you know, 9 times in 4 months...lol.

                        bottom-line is, yeah, Obama was inexperienced in 2008 but nor was he utterly ignorant and absolutely without honor or character. it is interesting that Comey felt the need to state that after his very first meeting with Trump, he felt compelled to document every meeting because he sensed right off the bat that Trump was a liar.
                        I haven't followed this particular bungle all that closely, but I listened to around 20 minutes of the Comey testimony. From what I remember, he said:

                        1. Trump brought dropping any part of the Russian investigation once.
                        2. Trump did not mention anything about stopping the Russian investigation. He said he wanted Comey to go easy on Flynn. He also said he wants to know if any of his subordinates did anything illegal or improper.
                        3. Trump never ordered Comey to stop the investigation. He asked Comey to go easy. Comey said he took this as an order, but said there was no explicit order.
                        4. Trump asked Comey to reveal that Trump himself was not under investigation, which the Gang of Eight already knew.

                        None of these seemed to be substantially under doubt. Even the Democrats asking Comey questions were making a big to-do about how intimidating the Oval Office was.

                        I don't see the problem with any of what Trump has done, based on what I heard. Democrats from base voter to Gang of Eight are systemically leaking incomplete information and creating a media narrative to imply Trump himself was colluding with Russia in order to remove him from the office. It's not at all unusual for a normal person to want to see what parts of the federal government will help him combat this notion, especially since everything turned out has essentially been molehills morphed into mountains by moronic press agents (which Comey said as much himself). Unusual? Perhaps, but "ignorant" of norms is not the same as "dishonorable." And certainly nothing amounting to high crime, treason, or anything of the sort.


                        There's definitely someone undermining American institutions, but it ain't Trump. As far as I am concerned, the Democrats are collectively less than a generation from March on Rome territory. At this point, I'm tuning out all the Russia stuff, and am assuming it's much ado about nothing. The Dems had their prime-time shot and they blew it.
                        "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                        Comment


                        • GVChamp,

                          Unusual? Perhaps, but "ignorant" of norms is not the same as "dishonorable."
                          uh...right, "ignorant" of norms. because it was just a naive ignorance of norms to empty out a room to talk to the FBI director alone, and to badger him repeatedly to end an investigation into one of your associates and clear your name. the main impetus of the Comey testimony was him testifying as to the character of the man (ie the repeated assertion of Trump as a liar), because the rest either trods on Mueller's territory or goes into the classified arena.

                          At this point, I'm tuning out all the Russia stuff, and am assuming it's much ado about nothing. The Dems had their prime-time shot and they blew it.
                          Comey's goal was to get a special counsel appointed. he succeeded in that. Mueller is ultimately going to be the one that damns or exonerates Trump, not Comey.

                          in any case, the issue of being "without honor or character" goes far beyond the Russia debacle, and of course is a different issue from impeachment/crimes/etc etc. i used the Comey testimony as just the most recent example of the low character of Trump, but plenty of other examples abound about our Grabben-fuhrer and Trump U conman.
                          Last edited by astralis; 12 Jun 17,, 15:17.
                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                            So when will leaker Comey be indicted? He may be able to provide some helpful tips to Ms. Reality Winner to be a bit more covert about leaking government information?
                            What did Comey leak?

                            He released his account of conversations he had with Trump. Only after Trump characterized him as a liar, nutjob, and claimed via Twitter that Comey engaged in incriminating actions during the meetings and phone calls that Trump initiated.

                            Comey simply got his side of the story out, after Trump attempted to pre-emptively assassinate Comey's character.

                            There's a vast difference between leaking national security secrets (and Comey leaked none) and getting your side of the story out after a highly publicized evisceration, that Trump himself initiated in the wake of Comey's firing, and responding to attempts at character asassassination.

                            Comey merely stood up for himself and his reputation.
                            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                            • Lol

                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]43906[/ATTACH]

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                GVChamp,



                                uh...right, "ignorant" of norms. because it was just a naive ignorance of norms to empty out a room to talk to the FBI director alone, and to badger him repeatedly to end an investigation into one of your associates and clear your name. the main impetus of the Comey testimony was him testifying as to the character of the man (ie the repeated assertion of Trump as a liar), because the rest either trods on Mueller's territory or goes into the classified arena.



                                Comey's goal was to get a special counsel appointed. he succeeded in that. Mueller is ultimately going to be the one that damns or exonerates Trump, not Comey.

                                in any case, the issue of being "without honor or character" goes far beyond the Russia debacle, and of course is a different issue from impeachment/crimes/etc etc. i used the Comey testimony as just the most recent example of the low character of Trump, but plenty of other examples abound about our Grabben-fuhrer and Trump U conman.
                                the same FBI that set the precedent of meeting one on one with trump to inform him of the 'Russian dossier'.

                                Comey's goal was to extract his pound of flesh, and he did so.

                                Politics at it's finest.

                                if nothing comes from Session's testimony in regards to a mysterious 'third' meeting, then Comey is even more fried.

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