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Thread: French Presidential Election

  1. #121
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Tee Hee, Scott Adams

    France had a chance to elect a Trump-like candidate, but instead chose a rich, white businessman with no government experience.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    toby,



    not the reason why New Labour died though. New Labour died because of Blair's commitment to the Iraq War. i agree that Blair was politically opportunistic/flexible/etc but ironically it was Blair actually standing up for something that slaughtered him, lol.
    Labour died because the Captain jumped ship, because the Captain knew the ship was about to hit an Iceberg (shitstorm), Ironshithead took over and all hell broke loose, Meanwhile the Captain found Catholicism and all his sins were forgiven, Amen
    But yeh Iraq was a biggy
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    actually, i would say it is closer to 2008 vote for Obama than the vote for Trump. both Macron and Obama offered a fresh face to put on what is essentially a neoliberal/centrist platform.
    Fair enough, you get my point though?

    Le Pen was right about one thing, this was a vote for 'continuity'. but what the bland word 'continuity' hides is a very real sense that this cannot be a static continuity any more, it -must- be active to fix the very real issues that face France/Western world. i think Macron understands that if nothing is done, then the next election may very well result in a landslide for Le Pen.
    Correct and that would be a real mess!
    if there is one upside to the populist revolt engulfing the West, it is that it has jarred a very complacent establishment into realizing that if they wish to keep their values they need to fight for it, not assume it
    We all got lazy, now its time to work hard again!

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Absolutely. An intelligent conman is way preferable to an unintelligent idealogue
    Does that come under Irony?

  4. #124
    Banned tankie's Avatar
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    He will have lots of support from bilderberg , and rothschilds .

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    He will have lots of support from bilderberg , and rothschilds .
    The ILLUMINATI will be up there with a shout as well....

  6. #126
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Self destruct at its best!

  7. #127
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i dunno, UK in the late 90s wasn't exactly a hellhole.

    i'll take blair...or May...over Commie Corbyn anyday.
    In other words - you prefer the Third Way.

  8. #128
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    i prefer a lot of things over Corbyn!
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  9. #129
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Ditto ^
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

  10. #130
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i prefer a lot of things over Corbyn!
    Labour is a joke these days. Torries must erect him a monument in their party HQ
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  11. #131
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i prefer a lot of things over Corbyn!
    I'd prefer Blair as well. Following the United States into the massive blunder of Iraq was a massive miscalculation on his part, as it the entire war was on our part, but that being said I don't have many qualms with his record otherwise, at least from my perspective as an American.

    He was basically Britain's Clinton, minus the whole Lewinsky/Paula Jones/Gennifer Flowers thing, but plus the Iraq war. If he'd handed the reins over to Brown in 2003, I'm sure he'd be seen as one of the better PMs in recent history.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I'd prefer Blair as well. Following the United States into the massive blunder of Iraq was a massive miscalculation on his part, as it the entire war was on our part, but that being said I don't have many qualms with his record otherwise, at least from my perspective as an American.

    He was basically Britain's Clinton, minus the whole Lewinsky/Paula Jones/Gennifer Flowers thing, but plus the Iraq war. If he'd handed the reins over to Brown in 2003, I'm sure he'd be seen as one of the better PMs in recent history.
    Handing over power would be ok for an American President to do to I guess???
    Last edited by Toby; 12 May 17, at 19:32.

  13. #133
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Yep,a guy who marries a woman 25 years his senior is the very definition of sanity.
    As a young 20 something Marine, My ideal wife would be 85yrs old, rich, own a liquor store and have a heart condition. Never met her though
    Human Scum. Proud Never Trumper

  14. #134
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    Voting system for the French legislative election today:

    - first past the post based on districts (each district = about 120,000 people)
    - lead candidate in first round needs to get 50% of votes cast and 25% of total registered voters voting for him.
    - otherwise second round between the two leading candidates, majority wins in second round.

    Results for districts are available here, currently slowly coming in. Note that a listed "nuance" does not mean a party the candidate belongs to but a political leaning; there's a ton of candidates that do not belong to the about ten major parties and who get sorted into groups: EXG (extreme left), DVG (left), ECO (ecological), DIV (other), REG (regional), DVD (right), EXD (extreme right). And unlike other countries these independents have solid chances of making it into the parliament too.

  15. #135
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Putin visited France a short time back. Press said macron gave him a hard time about condition of gays in Chechnya and calling macron gay in his own campaign amongst others. But the two have business to do

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo.../#5dbc649d12fd



    Why Is Every Story About Macron And Putin Exactly The Same?

    Investing #​ForeignAffairsMAY 30, 2017 @ 11:57 AM 27,012


    Kenneth Rapoza , CONTRIBUTOR
    I cover business and investing in emerging markets.

    Whether it's Reuters or the anti-Putin tabloid The Daily Beast, every headline today about the meeting between newly elected French president Emmanuel Macron and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, reads the same: Macron took it to Putin over fake news, Syria and gay rights. There is nothing else to see. Progressive nice guy Macron spanked evil backer of dictators, Putin.


    Reuters: France Hits Out On Russia Fake News.
    At a joint news conference after their talks, ill-feeling came to the surface over past allegations made by Macron's camp that state-funded Russian news outlets had sought to destabilise his campaign. With Putin alongside him, Macron repeated the accusation in a reply to a journalist's question, saying: "During the campaign, Russia Today and Sputnik were agents of influence which on several occasions spread fake news about me personally and my campaign. "They behaved like organs of influence, of propaganda and of lying propaganda," he said.
    NYT: Macron Challenges Putin On Syria, Gay Rights. Worth noting, Macron is complaining about the abuse of gay people in Chechnya, a Sunni Muslim stronghold in the Russian Caucuses. That place is a lightning rod. It is not easy for Moscow to boss Chechens around. Putin is more likely to leave Chechnya to the Chechens and its tough-guy leader Ramzan Kadyrov.


    Mr. Macron minced no words when it came to responding to a question about why his campaign had shut out two Russian-associated news organizations, Russia Today and Sputnik. Asked about why they did not have access to his campaign headquarters after the first round, Mr. Macron said, "When press organs sow defamatory untruths, they are no longer journalists. They are organs of influence."
    WaPo: French President Blasts Russian State-Owned Media. Like Reuters and the NYT, the article also spoke about Syria and gay Chechens.

    French President Emmanuel Macron delivered a blunt greeting to Vladi*mir Putin on Monday, criticizing the use of chemical weapons by Syria’s *Russian-backed government and blasting two Russian state-owned media organizations as “organs of influence and propaganda.”

    The Daily Beast: Macron Gets Under Putin's Skin, Shows Up Trump. It wouldn't be a Daily Beast article if it wasn't slamming Trump and Putin. Slamming Trump and Putin in the same story is like a triple double against LeBron James. Like Reuters, and the big Russian leak publishers NYT and WaPo, it focused on Syria and gays in Chechnya.

    Even when asked about Russian attempts to influence the French elections by hacking the Macron campaign, Macron said that was something they had spoken about when Putin called him to congratulate him after his victory on May 7. “Now we are moving ahead,” said Macron. But when asked why, as The Daily Beast was the first to report in April, the Macron campaign banned from its offices reporters for RT (Russia Today) and Sputnik, two of Putin’s pet state-funded media, Macron didn’t hesitate a moment: “Russia Today and Sputnik have been tools of influence, and they spread untruths about my person and my campaign,” said Macron. “On that point I’m not going to give an inch. Russia Today and Sputnik did not behave like organs of the press and of journalism, but as organs of lying propaganda.”

    Getting Nowhere Faster!

    What have we learned from Macron and Putin's first meeting? What does France want with Russia, a nation in which it has shared a pan European history since the days when Napoleon Bonaparte was busy taking over Moscow? What about the Russians? What does Putin want?

    Judging by these four articles, Macron doesn't like Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad (noted), wants to protect Chechens from anti-gay Muslims (noted), and doesn't like Russian media (noted). Putin, for his part, where he is quoted, wants to remove sanctions. He shoves Western words down their throats, like "open markets" and "global trade", but those words only have meaning when coming from a Westerner, preferably a loyalty-plus card member of Davos ski resorts.

    Here is something worth noting on this French-Russia pow-wow today.


    Hassan Rouhani, Iran's president speaks during a joint press conference with Francois Hollande, France's former president, after a meeting in Paris on Jan. 28, 2016. French oil company Total SA is investing in Iran and is France is a big importer of Iranian oil. Iran is Russia's BFF and is more important to France than Syria and Ukraine. (Photographer: Christophe Morin/Bloomberg.)

    Macron needs Putin more than he needs Donald Trump. These two are more likely to get along, at least behind closed doors, and here is why. First, many in France are souring on sanctions, now in their third year. In April, France's lower house of parliament considered a resolution against sanctions renewal. European sanctions expire this summer. Some 577 deputies supported the resolution, with around 50 in favor of renewing them. It is not binding, but it tells us where the wind is blowing.


    Second, and more importantly, is this little deal here: Total signs agreement to develop giant South Pars gas field...in Iran.

    French oil giant Total SA is one of the biggest European players in Iranian hydrocarbons. Russia is Iran's best friend. Sanctions against Russia because of the Ukraine imbroglio ultimately killed the South Stream pipeline. The South Stream pipeline was Russian Gazprom's way to deliver natural gas into southern Europe. French energy company EDF was part of that deal. It's dead.

    Iran is an important part of France's energy security. Total has a lot of money there. France and Total cannot trust the Americans on Iran, but they can trust the Russians. The Russians would like some diplomatic assurances. Most of these may come in the way of some form of settlement in Syria regarding Assad. Ukraine is not high on Europe's to-do list. Moreover, adherence to the Minsk Accord is as dependent on the political will of Kiev as it is on Moscow.

    Some in the market believe there will be a French-Russia detente. No one in the mainstream political press will write about it because Macron leaning to Russia is akin to Trump leaning to Russia and that just opens up a whole can of worms.


    The Financial Times discreetly nails it: Macron and Putin Seek Reset.

    President Emmanuel Macron opened up the Palace of Versailles for Russia’s Vladimir Putin on Monday in an attempt to reboot France’s troubled relations with Moscow after tensions over Ukraine, Syria and suspected Russian meddling in France’s presidential election....Mr. Macron is now keen to reset the relationship with Moscow aides say. “There have been missed opportunities with Russia in the recent past, on Syria notably. The idea is to keep Russia close to Europe,” an adviser to Mr Macron said before the meeting."
    Meanwhile, with leaks after leaks about Russia "collusion" from the Invisible Man and the Unknown Comic and massive pressure from the numerous corners in Washington to pull Trump from his own Russian reset, Gary Cohn said recently that sanctions will stick and may even get stronger. The Senate's favorite Putin troll and friend of Putin hating oligarchs, Arizona Senator John McCain, hit the airwaves this Memorial Day weekend to remind Americans that the Russians are coming. They're scarier than ISIS.

    In France, beta male Macron isn't scared. Investors should be curious to see just how long this lasts, with Russia perhaps giving up on Assad. Former president Obama's sanctions-free Iran may very well be the wildcard.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Jun 17, at 23:08.

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