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Thread: Three burglars entered an Oklahoma home. The owner’s son opened fire with an AR-15, d

  1. #31
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    The AR involved was a Colt Sporter from early 1990s with 20" barrel. The house was in a suburb of Tulsa with large lots. The houses there were all stand-alone units and a good distance (maybe 30 meters) from the neighbor. I think the houses were all of pretty decent size, maybe 3000 sq ft.

    I wouldn't use an AR in tight spaces, especially not one with 20" barrel. However, I'd have to say, I would be far more confident confronting multiple assailants using an AR than a pistol.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  2. #32
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    The AR involved was a Colt Sporter from early 1990s with 20" barrel. The house was in a suburb of Tulsa with large lots. The houses there were all stand-alone units and a good distance (maybe 30 meters) from the neighbor. I think the houses were all of pretty decent size, maybe 3000 sq ft.

    I wouldn't use an AR in tight spaces, especially not one with 20" barrel. However, I'd have to say, I would be far more confident confronting multiple assailants using an AR than a pistol.
    I'm biding my time until I see a .223 bullpup I like. I want a 16" barrel in a 26" package with a good trigger (sorry Tavor) for fun at the range in addition to home defense duties.

    It seems like it would have darn near everything I want in a home defense firearm.

    • Easier to be accurate than with a pistol (especially when sleepy/disoriented)
    • Easy to maneuver indoors with short overall length
    • Sufficient velocity for remote wounding effects or "hydrostatic shock" (AR pistols give up about 700 fps and almost half the muzzle energy)
    • Ammunition minimises drywall over-penetration
    • 30 round magazine


    A lot more firepower than the 9mm CZ-75 on my nightstand, and a lot more maneuverable than the 12 gauge pump or the hilariously long 65" Mosin w/bayonet in the closet : )
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 08 Apr 17, at 04:24.

  3. #33
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I'm biding my time until I see a .223 bullpup I like. I want a 16" barrel in a 26" package with a good trigger (sorry Tavor) for fun at the range in addition to home defense duties.

    It seems like it would have darn near everything I want in a home defense firearm.

    • Easier to be accurate than with a pistol (especially when sleepy/disoriented)
    • Easy to maneuver indoors with short overall length
    • Sufficient velocity for hydrostatic shock (AR pistols give up about 700 fps)
    • Ammunition minimises drywall over-penetration
    • 30 round magazine


    A lot more firepower than the 9mm CZ-75 on my nightstand, and a lot more maneuverable than the 12 gauge pump or the hilariously long 65" Mosin w/bayonet in the closet : )
    The Mosin with bayonet is a great zombie apocalypse weapon. It has the reach, both with ammo and without ammo. The round has sufficient power to go through several Zs in a row. The bayonet is a stabbing weapon and unlikely to get caught in the skull like a machete.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I'm biding my time until I see a .223 bullpup I like. I want a 16" barrel in a 26" package with a good trigger (sorry Tavor) for fun at the range in addition to home defense duties.

    It seems like it would have darn near everything I want in a home defense firearm.

    • Easier to be accurate than with a pistol (especially when sleepy/disoriented)
    • Easy to maneuver indoors with short overall length
    • Sufficient velocity for remote wounding effects or "hydrostatic shock" (AR pistols give up about 700 fps and almost half the muzzle energy)
    • Ammunition minimises drywall over-penetration
    • 30 round magazine


    A lot more firepower than the 9mm CZ-75 on my nightstand, and a lot more maneuverable than the 12 gauge pump or the hilariously long 65" Mosin w/bayonet in the closet : )
    Get a Tavor and a trigger kit. Problem solved. Or are there no decent trigger kits for the Tavor?

  5. #35
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    Get a Tavor and a trigger kit. Problem solved. Or are there no decent trigger kits for the Tavor?
    I have a couple issues that have discouraged me from acquiring a Tavor SAR:

    • There are trigger kits available from Giselle and Timney if you are prepared to throw another $350 at a gun that already costs $2k
    • Accuracy with the stock trigger is apparently around 8 moa for most people
    • Suppressors cause excessive gas blowback that hits you in the face

    I'm waiting to see how the DesertTech MDR fares in reviews assuming they ever actually release the thing! I'm assuming they have attempted to improve on some of these aspects to compete with the Tavor, and I'm also digging the fact that it can be easily converted to fire 7.62x51.

    https://deserttech.com/product_overv...oduct_overview
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 08 Apr 17, at 05:01.

  6. #36
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    The AR involved was a Colt Sporter from early 1990s with 20" barrel. The house was in a suburb of Tulsa with large lots. The houses there were all stand-alone units and a good distance (maybe 30 meters) from the neighbor. I think the houses were all of pretty decent size, maybe 3000 sq ft.

    I wouldn't use an AR in tight spaces, especially not one with 20" barrel. However, I'd have to say, I would be far more confident confronting multiple assailants using an AR than a pistol.
    A 20" barrel is is certainly going to up the mv and hence the effective range of the rifle, so even allowing for the type of neighborhood you describe I still think there's an unnecessary risk posed to the neighbors. As for the rest, assuming the occupant concerned was well practiced in tactical pistol shooting I don't think 3 assailants are necessarily an issue, depending of course on issues like initial engagement range and the tactical geography.

    On professional basis (i.e. LEOs and military), if I had my 'druthers' I think an SMG would be the way to go in this scenario (confined spaces, close range and a built up area etc) as opposed to an assault rifle. Of course I have no idea whether full auto SMGs are a legal civilian option in Oklahoma or for that matter any other US States.

    Have to say though I'm glad they are not an option here. Last thing I need is more stress on the job.

  7. #37
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    Civilians here in the US can get semi auto versions of smgs, but there is still a restriction on minimum length of the barrel to 14 inches.

    A popular thing people have wanted the last few years has been getting an AR like platform in 300 black out. You can then get the subsonic version of that round, which hits about as hard as a .45 acp, and match that to a suppressor, which makes the whole thing very quiet for in door use.

    Of course by that point you've spent maybe $3.5k on tacticool and your wife will probably be ready to kill you herself.

    A more accessible option is something like a keltec sub 2000 in 9mm or .40 SW, which is like $500.
    Last edited by citanon; 08 Apr 17, at 20:40.

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