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Thread: Three burglars entered an Oklahoma home. The owner’s son opened fire with an AR-15, d

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    My personal weapon for home defence would be without doubt a semi auto 5 shot browning 12 guage chambered for 3 inch magnum , seems to cover all the angles for mweahhh . But anything that is close to hand as a weapon is much better than SFA , but to comment ref 3 dead ,, GOOD
    Tankie, don't forget that if you are at home you want something that is not going to get in your way as you move to engage. A compact, short weapon is generally better in confined spaces. Beyond that I don't tend to regard 3 people dead as a 'good' outcome. Yes, in this instance it was infinitely preferable to the alternate option i.e. the occupant or a member of his family being harmed but having them in detained in custody and answering for their crimes would be my preference.

  2. #17
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    Tankie, don't forget that if you are at home you want something that is not going to get in your way as you move to engage. A compact, short weapon is generally better in confined spaces. Beyond that I don't tend to regard 3 people dead as a 'good' outcome. Yes, in this instance it was infinitely preferable to the alternate option i.e. the occupant or a member of his family being harmed but having them in detained in custody and answering for their crimes would be my preference.
    I do , i get the point of close quarter weapons mate but i would still rely on the 12 gauge ,barrels can be shortened , obviously the kid has been forewarned by noise etc etc that some bastard was where they shouldnt have been and got whatever weapon was at hand , hit 1st ask Qs later , they are dead , he and his family are alive , the perps got what they deserved , if they werent there with intent , they would still be alive .No bleeding hearts from me monash , none whatsoever .And im sure the last thing on the shooters mind was to say hands up ya under arrest , Of course its just my opinion ,, and im sure millions of others . Cheers .


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  3. #18
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    My weapon of choice would be the lightsaber that dad got me when I was 8.....Seriously good for cutting people in half

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  4. #19
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    The kid probably hunts with his rifle, possibly big game because 3 humans is too many. Maybe it was dark.

  5. #20
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anil View Post
    The kid probably hunts with his rifle, possibly big game because 3 humans is too many. Maybe it was dark.
    Ahhhhh but , just think economics , with a short barrel 12 he cud have got all 3 with one shot .


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  6. #21
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    Ahhhhh but , just think economics , with a short barrel 12 he cud have got all 3 with one shot .
    With your sight it would've been 9 down. No wonders you prefer a broad sweep, just can't miss : D
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  7. #22
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    With your sight it would've been 9 down. No wonders you prefer a broad sweep, just can't miss : D
    Ahhhh yes 105 mm cannister .thooper dooper


    Trust gets you killed, love gets you hurt, and being REAL gets you hated.

  8. #23
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    AR15 was the proper tool here.
    http://ktul.com/news/local/family-me...peaks-out?sdfc

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    Family member of teen burglary suspect killed in Wagoner County break-in speaks out
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    by Ethan Hutchins
    Thursday, March 30th 2017

    Photo of Jacob Redfearn, courtesy of Leroy Schumacher.

    Jacob Redfearn 3.JPGJacob Redfearn.JPG
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    COOKSON, Okla., (KTUL) -- A family member of one of the three teen suspects killed after breaking into a Wagoner County home Monday is speaking out for the first time.


    The grandfather of Jacob Redfearn believes shooting and killing the 17-year-old and his friends was not needed.

    RELATED | WCSO: Getaway driver in deadly home invasion had no connection with homeowners



    “What these three boys did was stupid," said Leroy Schumacher.

    Schumacher agrees his grandson and his friends made a bad decision, but not one worthy of deadly consequences.

    “They knew they could be punished for it but they did not deserve to die," said Schumacher.

    Redfearn, 19-year old Maxwell Cook and 16-year old Jake Woodruff were shot by the homeowner’s son while breaking into the Wagoner County house Monday.

    Schumacher says his grandson didn't have a chance. The 17-year old, he says, never got into trouble.

    “Brass knuckles against an AR-15, come on, who was afraid for their life," said Schumacher.




    Since the shooting, Wagoner County deputies have arrested 21-year-old Elizabeth Rodriguez, the alleged getaway driver.

    Schumacher believes she was the ring leader, and investigators say she admitted to planning the whole thing.

    The homeowner's son has not been charged with a crime. Deputies believe he fired in self-defense.

    “There’s got to be a limit to that law, I mean he shot all three of them; there was no need for that," said Schumacher.

    LISTEN: 911 call released from deadly Wagoner County burglary

    Schumacher does say he supports the right to bear arms and protect your home. But he doesn’t agree with shooting and killing intruders.



    “These boys' families are going to suffer with this the rest of their lives, we have to live with this the rest of our lives," said Schumacher.

    It’s a situation he knows was caused by the three teens' poor decisions.

    He only hopes their deaths can be an example for others.

    “You can’t change history, but you can damn sure learn from it, and maybe some kids will learn from this," said Schumacher.

    At one point Cook and Woodruff were enrolled with Owasso Public Schools, according to the district, and Redfearn was at one point enrolled in Collinsville Public Schools.

    -----

    EDITOR'S NOTE: A previous version of this story reported a vigil was planned for Friday night at Owasso's YMCA, according to Owasso Public Schools' superintendent, but the YMCA says no vigil is planned at their organization
    Last edited by troung; 01 Apr 17, at 18:26.
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  9. #24
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    The bottom line is that the best defense weapon is the one you can get to when the bad guys come. Not everyone can afford multiple weapons for specializing, gen shooting, personal defense, hunting etc. One thing I have noticed through the years is that to be cautious of the man who has but one firearm. Chances are he really knows how to use it for best effect in most circumstaces.

    This situation is a win-win in many ways. First it proves that a good guy with a gun can engage bad guys and win. Secondly, the bad guys were taken out and no bystanders were hit. Third, This quiets all those that question the use of an AR-15 for defense as obviously this platform does a good job of it. Third, we dont have to bear the expence of a trial, incarceration and further crimes by these individuals. The result is that because of a good guy with a gun a crime was stopped and further crimes have been stopped. The community is indebted to this man because he had the means and the courage to defend his home.....this is a fine example of what more Americans should be doing.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

  10. #25
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    I cannot speak about burglers however, I have a yard with free range and pet birds(budgies and ringnecks) flying around the house. Have a problem with cat attacks taking away budgies from the house. I used to use sling with marbles but it was ineffective. Things get over in 15-20 secs. Now I use a .22 air rifle on standby. Problems during quick reflex situation is loading and weight(4.2kg). Back hurts looking through the scope but fixed using laser sight now using rested at gut level.

    For burglary situation, I think anything higher than 22 handgun would do. 12 guage is hardcore but funny if tankie actually has a working setup.
    Last edited by anil; 02 Apr 17, at 10:32.

  11. #26
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    I think Monash and Steve both brought up interesting points (and wow never knew that about Monash).

    I think Monash is right about the potential danger but I've also seen some of the tests that Steve referred.

    However, for home defense you also have to consider an untrained mentally unprepared person's ability to hit and stop an intruder while under enormous stress.

    From that angle the AR wins hands down.

    Btw, a question I've always wondered about:

    Is the AR drop safe when it's chambered with the safety on?

    Are there any drop safe shotguns out there?

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    All that was in my younger days, now I 'Police' a desk and chase money launderers and other transnational corporate crimes. Do I envy the younger officers? sometimes yes. But then I think 'been there done that' plus I get to go home to a cold beer and a warm bed more regularly than they do. So there is an up side.

  13. #28
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anil View Post
    I cannot speak about burglers however, I have a yard with free range and pet birds(budgies and ringnecks) flying around the house. Have a problem with cat attacks taking away budgies from the house. I used to use sling with marbles but it was ineffective. Things get over in 15-20 secs. Now I use a .22 air rifle on standby. Problems during quick reflex situation is loading and weight(4.2kg). Back hurts looking through the scope but fixed using laser sight now using rested at gut level.

    For burglary situation, I think anything higher than 22 handgun would do. 12 guage is hardcore but funny if tankie actually has a working setup.
    Haa no mate not anymore , did have , i had a stevens savage pump action ( utter crap) and a browning semi auto , UK is very strict gun control , only crims have them now , shotguns are the only ones we are allowed now except if deer stalker with rifles only , 22 for vermin control , no handguns , but nothing like was used in this situation .
    Last edited by tankie; 03 Apr 17, at 16:29.


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  14. #29
    Senior Contributor Amled's Avatar
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    In a similar discussion some years ago (Shamus, R.I.P. mate!), mentioned that he was of the Big and Heavy school of thought in these situations. Heavy to bring them down, Big to scare them shitless.!
    Also on outside defense, he did mention Claymores at one time.
    Never really knew if he was kidding, or not.
    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

  15. #30
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    I would throw my poo, as my pants would no doubt be full of it at that time.

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