The battle of Brexit!

[snapper]

No it does not happen every year. "The last two times Parliament was suspended for a Queen's Speech that was not after a general election the closures lasted for four and 13 working days respectively." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

This proroguement is for over a month - from September 9th to October 14th upon which days have to be set aside to debate the Queens Speech. The Speaker, John Bercow, says "however it is dressed up, it is blindingly obvious that the purpose of prorogation now would be to stop parliament debating Brexit and performing its duty in shaping a course for the country."

[snapper]

If it helps bring on the Brexit that a majority of the British people voted for and ends 3 years of mucking about then hell yeah!

Do not lie. Nobody in the UK voted for this. On the contrary they were told a deal with the EU would be 'easiest deal ever' that £350m per week more go to the NHS, that Parliamentary Sovereignty would be restored. Now he purposefully closes Parliament down so that he can leave with no deal because he knows he would lose of vote of no confidence - and after this filthy tactic - where they lied to the Queen effectively - he can be pretty sure of losing any vote.

[Steph]

Actually the Leave Campaign emphasized on controlling immigration :

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.html

Here is Johnson’s proposal about the backstop :

https://assets.publishing.service.go...onald_Tusk.pdf

My English may be too poor, but I fail to understand which changes Johnson is proposing about the Irish/British border in relation to increasing the control of immigration.

- the immigration between EU and Southern Ireland can not be controlled by the UK (or maybe that is what Johnson wants?)

- «no return to a hard border» between Southern Ireland and Ulster, he says.
He talks about «flexible and creative solutions» : any idea about these solutions which have not been found for 3 years ? He doesn’t seem to have any, they are still «to be explored». Anyway, these solutions are only for «customs and regulatory differences», which I understand does not include immigration.

- and of course no control between Ulster and the rest of the UK.

The result is : no change about immigration through Ireland.

So let’s re-read «why vote leave»:
- the 350 m£ is fake news
- the "control of our own borders means" : except for the 500 km border in Ireland
- the immigration control has disappeared from Johnson’s agenda,
- and finally : «our laws should be made by people we can elect and kick out – that’s more democratic». Yeah. And these people will be sent home for 5 weeks at a crucial moment by an apparatchik elected by 92000 persons - that’s even more democratic.

[Double Edge]

No it does not happen every year. "The last two times Parliament was suspended for a Queen's Speech that was not after a general election the closures lasted for four and 13 working days respectively." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

This proroguement is for over a month - from September 9th to October 14th upon which days have to be set aside to debate the Queens Speech. The Speaker, John Bercow, says "however it is dressed up, it is blindingly obvious that the purpose of prorogation now would be to stop parliament debating Brexit and performing its duty in shaping a course for the country."

If this prorogation happens as expected, it will see Parliament closed for 23 working days.

If ? what do they mean by If ?

That means its still not clear whether it will happen or not.

[Freyr]

It's simple - you are obliged by law to give way to sail.

WRONG! You are clearly not a skipper and do not understand the rules.

Your net gets caught on my keel - your problem.

In general both sailing boats and power driven vessels should give way to vessels engaged in fishing. As they have more maneuverability

I am cutting your net and will charge you if it has fouled my propeller or rudder.

You might have bigger problems , like saving your own life

*dilemna in English.

Are you sure its not 'Dilemma' ?

Pritti Patel is the Home Secretary - the whole thing was about immigration and do not lie about it.

Funny, I thought the British public wanted to take a side swipe at the governing elite

It now seems however that Boris Johnson has gone full dictatorial mode and "advised" the Queen to prorogue Parliament - that is end the current session of Parliament that stops it from sitting or debating - next month, shortly after the MPs return from holiday. This was the idea first thought of by Dominic Raab(id) during the Conservative Party Leadership election that I mentioned in this thread a while ago. The Queen, because she is obliged to "take advice from the PM" has therefore given her consent. It is disgraceful to me a former subject of Queen Elizabeth 2 that this profoundly egotistic and unscrupulous PM has roped the Monarchy into saving his political career. This will also be the longest proroguation in history since Edward lll died in 1480 something at Bosworth.

So here is the timetable of when the HoC is now permitted to sit; they return on the 3rd and Parliament will be prorogued for the 9th until a new Queen's Speech is delivered on 14 October - bear in mind that if Parliament cannot pass any binding vote that Boris and Co are legally obliged to obey the UK leaves the EU on October 31st by legal default with no deal and future trade talks not committed to.

The 'will of the people' it seems to Boris has nothing to do with the oversight and sovereignty of Parliament that they told you Brexit was meant to restore. Some senior Conservatives - including Philip Hammond - have denounced this move. Comrade Corbyn says it is "an affront to democracy", even the Speaker Bercow has apparently said "I have had no contact from the government, but if the reports that it is seeking to prorogue parliament are confirmed, this move represents a constitutional outrage."

Worse still I have rumours - which time may prove correct or incorrect - that should a vote of no confidence be lost they will not recommend an alternative person to try to form a Government to the Queen. In short they will refuse to quit when voted out in the House.

The democratic arguement for 'brexit' has just left the room - Boris, elected by the remaining 0.13% of British people that still have Conservative and Unionist Party membership, in the cause of restoring the 'sovereignty of Parliament', now is stopping Parliament debating, representing their constituents or derailing his political wannabe career. Bugger democracy - it's all about the "will of the people" as it is 'truly known' only to Dear Leader. Thus said every tyrant in history.

This marks possibly the end of the Conservative and Unionist Party possibly as a whole but certainly as any responsible political force in British politics. And guess what? All the new Cabinet Ministers - Gove, Amber Rudd, Matt Hancock, who previously spoke out against proroguing Parliament - Gove in the Leadership election - now think it is fine! For deeper Tory fallout see this article;
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4223966.html
The current Editor of the Evening Standard being none other than George Osbourne, the former Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Cameron Government(s). The Party has gone the same way as the US Republican Party and can no longer be trusted or believed. My Nan would weep.

Of course it is clear that this done to prevent Parliament blocking a 'no deal Brexit'. Consider this; the current British Government (with a majority of 1 when combined with the DUP) - it's stated position is that it wants a "better deal" than that Theresa May offered with the EU and that Parliament rejected three times. To ratify any 'better deal' they may in an unlikely future get with the EU they need the House of Commons to sit and debate it. But they are now stopping the Parliament debating anything. It seems to me that the strategy (if it can be called that) is to get out of the EU with no deal on October 31st and then call an election hoping enough of the Farage mob of the Brexit Party and the remains of UKIP nuts (and Muscovite bots and money) help them save their political careers while democracy, the economy and the country go to pot

I think you'll find that the arch hypocrite and Europhile John Major prorogued parliament back in 1997.

Seeing as a large proportion of members of Parliament (MP's) are hell bent on denying the Brexit referendum result and are actively working against the democratic will of the people I see no option but for Boris to take these steps. A political coup has already taken place by the way and its ambition is Remain!

[Freyr]

Pritti ? lol, is that how she spells it.

Preety is how its spelt on this side

Meanwhile as the UK parliament just got suspended for a month i take it everyone is ok with that ?

: O

I thought the idea was to take every one along.

How do you do that by suspending parliament !!

Time was the other side was getting slammed for being undemocratic.

9 days to debate what could not in three years.

Its similar to the Indian tactic in Kashmir, only nobody is under house arrest , there's no curfew, no torture, no banning of demonstrations, no closing of communication with the outside world and no raspberry blowing. With the opposite effect of leaving the larger entity and not being swallowed up by it...

[Freyr]

and performing its duty in shaping a course for the country."

They couldn't perform a piss up in brewery!!!

[Freyr]

- the "control of our own borders means" : except for the 500 km border in Ireland

Tell me if I'm wrong but don't you need a form of ID to sail or fly from N. Ireland to the UK mainland?

[Freyr]

Some body asked your defense minsiter how often this prorogue-ing business happens in the UK

His reply ? ever year

What !

Parliament is usually prorogued or adjourned before it is dissolved. ... This tradition was again carried out at the most recent dissolution, in May 2017. Remain are making a mountain out of a mole hill for political puposes

[snapper]

WRONG! You are clearly not a skipper and do not understand the rules.

In general both sailing boats and power driven vessels should give way to vessels engaged in fishing. As they have more maneuverability

I do not care what you are doing - steam gives way to sail.

You might have bigger problems , like saving your own life

Cutting the net solves that worry.

Funny, I thought the British public wanted to take a side swipe at the governing elite

They done great with that then - an Eton and Oxbridge educated former member of the Bullingdon Club is currently PM. But one of the scare tactics in the referendum was Turkey would soon join the EU and then the UK would be flooded with millions of Turks. Well now they got that too! Boris Johnson is the grandson of Ali Kemal, briefly Minister of the Interior in 1919.

I think you'll find that the arch hypocrite and Europhile John Major prorogued parliament back in 1997.

I understand John Major prorogued Parliament early prior to a General Election. He was criticised for this as it held up a report on MPs taking cash for questions. It was not 34 days as this is... the average proroguation time is apparently 8 days. 2014 was 20 days but this encompassed the Whitsun recess and European Elections. There is no possible way that can be construed other than an attempt to curb Parliamentary Sovereignty and oversight of the Executive - and that is unconstitutional.

Seeing as a large proportion of members of Parliament (MP's) are hell bent on denying the Brexit referendum result and are actively working against the democratic will of the people I see no option but for Boris to take these steps. A political coup has already taken place by the way and its ambition is Remain!

Look the referendum was three and a half years ago. It has not gone as swimmingly easily as all the Brexit campaigners assured the British electorate it would - the easiest deal ever because German cars etc... It is not unusual to have two General elections in the UK in that time span - I believe in 1974 there were two elections in a year. People are allowed to change their minds and what was the 'will of the people' in June 2016 is not the 'will the of the people' today. Nor did anyone for a 'no deal' Brexit as every single Brexiteer from Boris to Farage claimed the UK would get a deal. They also said it would restore the sovereignty of Parliament but now Johnson is stopping Parliament have a say - when he was elected by 0.13% of the population to force through a no deal Brexit. He has no mandate or right to do this.

[Freyr]

I do not care what you are doing -

Its pretty obvious that you don't care, I realised that a while ago

steam gives way to sail.

I think you should read the rule book.

The give-way vessel must take early and substantial action to keep well clear

A sailing vessel must give way to:
1. a vessel not under command;
2. a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre;
3. a vessel engaged in fishing.

These are the Rules NOT an opinion so go deal with it

Cutting the net solves that worry.

Adding to pollution and Ghost fishing well done! Not to mention that its illegal and you will be prosecuted and quite possibly rammed, thrown overboard and thrown a life raft!

They done great with that then - an Eton and Oxbridge educated former member of the Bullingdon Club is currently PM. But one of the scare tactics in the referendum was Turkey would soon join the EU and then the UK would be flooded with millions of Turks. Well now they got that too! Boris Johnson is the grandson of Ali Kemal, briefly Minister of the Interior in 1919.

and about to deliver the referendum result

I understand John Major prorogued Parliament early prior to a General Election. He was criticised for this as it held up a report on MPs taking cash for questions. It was not 34 days as this is... the average proroguation time is apparently 8 days. 2014 was 20 days but this encompassed the Whitsun recess and European Elections. There is no possible way that can be construed other than an attempt to curb Parliamentary Sovereignty and oversight of the Executive - and that is unconstitutional.

How can it be unconstitutional when there is no written constitution?

Look the referendum was three and a half years ago. It has not gone as swimmingly easily as all the Brexit campaigners assured the British electorate it would - the easiest deal ever because German cars etc... It is not unusual to have two General elections in the UK in that time span - I believe in 1974 there were two elections in a year. People are allowed to change their minds and what was the 'will of the people' in June 2016 is not the 'will the of the people' today. Nor did anyone for a 'no deal' Brexit as every single Brexiteer from Boris to Farage claimed the UK would get a deal. They also said it would restore the sovereignty of Parliament but now Johnson is stopping Parliament have a say - when he was elected by 0.13% of the population to force through a no deal Brexit. He has no mandate or right to do this

According to a survey of all 650 MPs carried out by the Press Association ahead of the referendum on June 23:

:: 480 MPs said they would be voting Remain, including 184 Conservatives

:: 159 MPs said they would be voting Leave, including 139 Conservatives

:: 11 MPs were undeclared, including four Conservatives

This gives Remain a notional Commons majority of at least 310.

Some 218 Labour MPs said they would vote Remain while just 11 backed Leave.

All eight Liberal Democrat MPs intended to vote Remain, along with all 56 SNP MPs, all three Plaid Cymru MPs, all four Sinn Fein MPs and all three SDLP MPs.

Green MP Caroline Lucas also said she would vote Remain, as did independent MP Sylvia Hermon and the two Ulster Unionist MPs.

The eight DUP MPs said they would be voting to Leave, along with Ukip MP Douglas Carswell.

So surprise surprise parliament has found various mechanisms within the unwritten constitution to scupper Brexit. Well Boris is pulling a flanker and he's about to tip the undemocratic intentions of Parliament into the abyss when the UK leaves on Oct 31st Hoorah for democracy and down with totalitarian autocrats such as yourself

[Freyr]

[snapper]

I think you should read the rule book.

A sailing vessel must give way to:
1. a vessel not under command;
2. a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre;
3. a vessel engaged in fishing.

These are the Rules NOT an opinion so go deal with it

Adding to pollution and Ghost fishing well done! Not to mention that its illegal and you will be prosecuted and quite possibly rammed, thrown overboard and thrown a life raft!

Never met a vessel not under command. Fishermen can go leap out of my way and I cut your nets. Want to ram me... try and I'll have you in court and your boat sold. It very simple - just tell me how far your nets extend and let me pass.

and about to deliver the referendum result

That was in June 2016... wake up dozy! It's now September 2019 and many people doubtless know they were lied to! How do you know it is the will of the British people now?

How can it be unconstitutional when there is no written constitution?

Just because there is no written constitution does not mean there is no constitution in the UK which indeed there is based on common law precedent. If it hasn't been done before it is unconstitutional and nobody has used a proroguation before to deny the House of Commons it's right in debating a fundamental issue of the nations constitutional future and quite possibly of the Unions remaining existence.

According to a survey of all 650 MPs carried out by the Press Association ahead of the referendum on June 23:

:: 480 MPs said they would be voting Remain, including 184 Conservatives

:: 159 MPs said they would be voting Leave, including 139 Conservatives

:: 11 MPs were undeclared, including four Conservatives

This gives Remain a notional Commons majority of at least 310.

Some 218 Labour MPs said they would vote Remain while just 11 backed Leave.

All eight Liberal Democrat MPs intended to vote Remain, along with all 56 SNP MPs, all three Plaid Cymru MPs, all four Sinn Fein MPs and all three SDLP MPs.

Green MP Caroline Lucas also said she would vote Remain, as did independent MP Sylvia Hermon and the two Ulster Unionist MPs.

The eight DUP MPs said they would be voting to Leave, along with Ukip MP Douglas Carswell.

So surprise surprise parliament has found various mechanisms within the unwritten constitution to scupper Brexit. Well Boris is pulling a flanker and he's about to tip the undemocratic intentions of Parliament into the abyss when the UK leaves on Oct 31st Hoorah for democracy and down with totalitarian autocrats such as yourself

There was another General election after that in June 2017 remember so these figures are nothing to do with today.

[Steph]

Tell me if I'm wrong but don't you need a form of ID to sail or fly from N. Ireland to the UK mainland?

I don't know, so you must be right.
Are you suggesting that the N. Ireland/UK mainland border is the place where the control will be increased and the immigration will be stopped ?

[Steph]

So surprise surprise parliament has found various mechanisms within the unwritten constitution to scupper Brexit. Well Boris is pulling a flanker and he's about to tip the undemocratic intentions of Parliament into the abyss when the UK leaves on Oct 31st Hoorah for democracy and down with totalitarian autocrats such as yourself

Damned. I now realize how undemocratic the UK Parliament is.
Who the hell did elect its mempers ?