Originally posted by Freyr
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Originally posted by Freyr
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Well first of all I was no fan of Gordon Brown and voted for Cameron in 2010. I am not sure what Brown did to undermine pensions but I assume you refer to the 2008 crash - which started in the US 'sub prime' mortgage market. How this effected the UK 'social housing' market you do not even hint at so I cannot really understand why you mention it. I was myself deeply against Brown's bailing out the banks at the time. I am not sure if RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland) is still yet fully out of public ownership 11yrs later. It was immoral to nationalise the bank losses - due to their own stupidity - while allowing them to keep privatising their profits and this I thought a was a mistake that would have further consequences. I also strongly disagreed with this making money out of nowhere - what they quaintly called "Quantitative Easing" policy (which the ECB is still doing). The Central Bankers literally got on their computers and 'created' trillions of US$ GBP£ and euros with which they then bought bank and mortgages etc on the markets. It was great to trade in the US in particular - every month the Fed would come out and say "Yea we are going to magic a whole new bunch of money" and sure as hell the US$ would drop and Gold would rise; it was a dead cert and I made quite alot of money trading it for my family and myself. Personally I believe in 'hard money' on a more Hayekian level and letting the markets operate freely more than Keynesian interventionism. If it needs building in a relatively prosperous economy the private sector will build it. In Ukraine at present that is not always possible as the private sector is some 60% in the hands of criminal oligarchs, the courts corrupt, and the middle class largely deprived of a political voice so the Government for now bears the burden of responsibility both to squish the oligarchs and disburse their holdings and for improvements in roads, hospitals and military supply and equipment etc... On the roads they have not entirely failed.
Nor am I saying what Thatcher did was in itself wrong when she allowed Council tennants to buy their own homes - though they were sold cheap and not at market prices. The problem was that after the 'Council Houses' were sold off cheap the money was not used to build more 'social housing'. Though I am not a socialist I am a Christian and a pragmatist and there will always be a working poor who need some sort of subsidised housing if they are to remain productive and not homeless. It is in everyone interest to keep these people as decently as we can so they can continue working in factories or doing whatever they do. Hopefully some will start their own businesses and pay more tax in time. I agreed with the Cameron/Osbourne (who is now going for the IMF post) policies of raising the income level at which the working poor start to pay tax. I disagreed with 'Help to Buy' (where if you had £5000 the Government would loan you another £10,000 to put down a deposit on a house type deal) and 'buy to let' type schemes which in my view just keep the UK property market artificially high and unaffordable for people on minimum wage living in rented accomodation. They should have invested in new subsisdised social housing - simple.
None of this is about the migration of European and Asian workers to the UK though. On that matter there were actually more migrants from outside the EU than from EU member countries itself. The UK had not invested in new 'social housing' since the 1950's and 60's and Thatcher sold alot that off cheap and did not replace it. So sure rents went up as did house prices. But these migrants also payed tax in the UK and did jobs that otherwise wouldn't be done. Last time I went to a Hospital in England I needed a couple of stitches in my finger (chopping firewood injury) and the Doctor was a Malaysian Christian Evangalist! I had a very interesting conversation with him and got his email and we are still in touch today. I do not have a problem with him become British, even if I am not any longer, as doubtless he has sewed up many more people since me. Last time I visited England I went into a shop wearing a Ukrainian badge on my jacket and the Lady greeted me 'Slava Ukraini!' but she was Polish as was I. I do not have a problem with that. Are the US and Canada - all the American nations inherantly 'wrong' because they are composed of migrants? Are not the original English themselves also migrants? Hengist and Horsa landed at Reculver as I recall the story...Other modern migrants go temporarily to pick fruit, potatoes, cabbages, cauliflowers, hops and what not and then just go home back to Romania and Bulgaria again. Most of these farms have temporary camp sites or housing for them so they live on site and do not effect the housing market while in England anyway. I knew people who used to go grape picking in France in summer after Uni in the same way.
Gordon Brown never sold huge amounts of social housing but did not make much either and to blame him for the crash is just wrong though I did not agree with his response by bailing out the banks. Nothing is as simple as you would like to paint it. The 2008 crash temporarily lower the housing market and what pensions have to do with it I do not know. So as far as I can see you are talking rubbish. Another problem in the UK has been planning permission to build new housing which is an extremely long and complicated process and can be costly if you hire lawyers. Still has nothing to do with Gordon Brown though who I find myself almost defending though I never voted for him. Just because you are wrong about Brown's mistakes does not make me a 'socialist' - just a bit more knowledgeable about the UK when I lived there than you.
As for 2 arriving and 1 leaving that has never occured in UK but I would rather have their problem of an increasing population that the one we have here where demographic decline is serious issue.
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