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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    Well isn't Alice a peach! Britain created it's mess and she's trying to put the blame on her own country for being too mean and demanding about it!
    All while defending herself against accusations that she and her entire party structure has been taking "donations" from shady foreign sources that were masked by strawmen in Germany who were paid for putting their names behind that...

    (on a side note: the AfD are what one calls "neoliberals" in Germany)

  2. #1292
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    Interesting.. So the left are in denial in Germany too....I grew up with no health and safety executive or PC police reinventing language..Pure Danish or English was just fine!

  3. #1293
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    UK is alot bigger than Iceland and we were told all the same BS.
    Your comment made me curious about iceland & the EU. Turns out before the 2008 crisis people were in favour of joining but after the crisis that mood shifted against. Still Iceland makes an application to join nd later on that application is suspended and remains that way
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelan...Public_opinion

    Now we are doing really well and we don't have to pay the Mafia. No deal is not the big deal they try to make it into. Long term you will win big time while the EU becomes less relevant.
    I remember when the 2008 crisis hit, Iceland was broke. Five years later thanks to having your own currency, Iceland recovered. Remember astralis posting this article in 2013. It was one of those success stories which Greece being in the EU could not emulate. In hindisight its really lucky you didn't get on the euro. It would have made recovery slower and more painful.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 07 Apr 19, at 01:09.

  4. #1294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Your comment made me curious about iceland & the EU. Turns out before the 2008 crisis people were in favour of joining but after the crisis that mood shifted against. Still Iceland makes an application to join nd later on that application is suspended and remains that way
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelan...Public_opinion



    I remember when the 2008 crisis hit, Iceland was broke. Five years later thanks to having your own currency, Iceland recovered. Remember astralis posting this article in 2013. It was one of those success stories which Greece being in the EU could not emulate. In hindisight its really lucky you didn't get on the euro. It would have made recovery slower and more painful.
    Yes true but we have avoided paying our Creditors due to a deal with the IMF. Our banks were too big too save which is the reverse of the UK's approach and at the same time due to a 50% reduction in currency value we have attracted alot of tourism. 7 tourists for every citizen of iceland is good?
    However the Political/ Judicial area is still a problem, Ok Iceland imprisoned 30 so bankers for short period but something shady going on I think, its not completely transparent.
    Greece I think has been screwed over by the EU. It should never have been allowed to join. But hey it helps keeps the Euro low in value for German exports

    Also no doubt Icelands situation would be different if it was apart of the EU, so yes that is a big part of Icelands success...Hard to say if the appetite for joining the EU would resurface in the future...
    Last edited by Freyr; 07 Apr 19, at 09:31.

  5. #1295
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    Bet you think you had a very lucky escape huh , I do . Ref your bankers lots of money was invested by corrupt councils in the uk hiding council tax revenue then complaining they didnt have enough money for services so they stuck it up peoples arses for more , RIP OFF BRITAIN its called , as for brexshit our corrupt govt along with el al ira terrorist hugging cor.bin is gonna make sure democracy is killed in the uk by ensuring we stay in the corrupt poxy pigs in troughs eu , the council elections in may will show these bastards how the country is feeling as the msm doesnt show it only how remain side feels !!! . I sincerely hope our record of "S Percival " is beaten by 2 .
    Last edited by tankie; 07 Apr 19, at 12:31.

  6. #1296
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    Yes true but we have avoided paying our Creditors due to a deal with the IMF. Our banks were too big too save which is the reverse of the UK's approach and at the same time due to a 50% reduction in currency value we have attracted alot of tourism. 7 tourists for every citizen of iceland is good?
    However the Political/ Judicial area is still a problem, Ok Iceland imprisoned 30 so bankers for short period but something shady going on I think, its not completely transparent.
    Greece I think has been screwed over by the EU. It should never have been allowed to join. But hey it helps keeps the Euro low in value for German exports

    Also no doubt Icelands situation would be different if it was apart of the EU, so yes that is a big part of Icelands success...Hard to say if the appetite for joining the EU would resurface in the future...
    Thing that sticks out in that wiki link about polls is the years 2009 & 2011

    Ten polls held for both years. That is a crazy amount of polling. is there any reason why those two years are special ?

    Funny thing is majority want "start negotiation" but are against "submit application" : )

    Join is tied twice in 2009 which i guess you can invert for leave in UK and you see very close margin again.

    Past mid 2009, Join starts losing and keeps losing.

    In 2011 the majority supports "continue negotiations" which i understand to mean get a better deal. Join is losing and even support for "maintain application".

    It means the deal to join was seen as not good enough.

    Before 2008 majority wants to join EU but when the process begins and negotiations the Icelanders see maybe its not such a great idea after all.

    As we go through the years to 2016, the only poll that is winning is "continue negotiations" which means still keep trying to get a better deal.

    There is an interesting symmetry here with Iceland wanting to join then losing interest and UK wanting to leave.

  7. #1297
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    11 out of 63 MPs are in favour of EU membership. Its important to talk and have good relations but keep control of currency which can grow stronger/stable with new industries. The right to chose for the people but with debt now falling to 20% of GDP I think next year. Iceland is in a good position. This would not have been possible in the EU.

  8. #1298
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    This might sound like crying over spilt milk. It bloody well is. But i can't help noting the difference in approach between Iceland & UK

    Iceland ask repeatedly, should we join, should we submit application, should we continue negotiations. They never had a referendum. Not yet.

    Whether to join, whether to leave, its the same thing just opposite.

    Why didn't the UK do the same thing, conduct non-binding polls like this repeatedly over several years ?

    Cameron gets slammed for being out of touch with the wishes of the people.

    Would he have put it to vote if he knew the odds were slim. Doubt it. He gambled and lost and put the country through hell.

    The result is nobody is happy now.

    The question of a referendum in Iceland still did come up.

    A poll released in January 2014 found that 67.5% of Icelanders support holding a referendum on the continuation of accession negotiations.

    On 22 February, the governing parties agreed to formally withdraw the membership application, without first holding a referendum on the matter, and submitted a bill to parliament seeking their approval to do so.

    The decision led to thousands of protesters taking to the streets outside of the Parliament buildings in Reykjavķk. Interesting. If polls showed majority don't want to join why the protests.

    By 28 February 82% were in favour of holding the referendum. Strange.

    More than 40,000 people (16.5% of Iceland's voters) have signed a petition demanding that the promised referendum be held. So there is interest to join the EU

    On 25 February, Ragnheišur Rķkharšsdóttir, Chairman of the parliamentary group of the Independence Party, announced her intention to not vote in favour of the proposal

    In early March, the EU ambassador to Iceland said that the country could keep its application suspended rather than having to decide between resuming negotiations or formally withdrawing the application,

    So even though there was pressure to hold a referendum Iceland decided not to do it and keeps the application in a suspended state.

    If the economy is doing better people want to join the EU but when its not doing good then they want to stay out of the EU ?
    Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Apr 19, at 14:36.

  9. #1299
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    Denying the people a vote is always the wrong thing to do. Which is what happened in the UK when UK gov ratified treaties without asking the people. UK politicians have created their own mess by not being honest with the UK population.



    I think its better to be relevant outside the EU but inside the EFTA than to be irrelevant inside which is all 300,000 people would be in context of voting power

  10. #1300
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    Denying the people a vote is always the wrong thing to do.
    You want Iceland to have a referendum on whether to join EU ? as that is what the protests in 2014 seemed to be in favour of. Don't know why they were protesting as polls showed majority were against joining.

    Which is what happened in the UK when UK gov ratified treaties without asking the people.
    They were put in in office by people and are ratifying treaties on their own behalf. In fact this Brexit thing could have been done in parliament as well. They decided to do a referendum instead, giving people the right without checking first what consequences will be

    UK politicians have created their own mess by not being honest with the UK population.
    They have been honest if this vote was allowed, but not astute is the word i would use.

  11. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    They decided to do a referendum instead, giving people the right without checking first what consequences will be .
    Technically there were no consequences. The referendum was only advisory and not in any way binding. Following up on Brexit afterwards was all the British government's idea (and fault).

  12. #1302
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Technically there were no consequences. The referendum was only advisory and not in any way binding. Following up on Brexit afterwards was all the British government's idea (and fault).
    I was told at the time not doing so ie following up would be politically unacceptable. And subsequent actions since have shown that to be true.

    Once the referendum results were out there was no holding back.

    Can you imagine the fit tankie would have thrown : O : D

  13. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You want Iceland to have a referendum on whether to join EU ? as that is what the protests in 2014 seemed to be in favour of. Don't know why they were protesting as polls showed majority were against joining.
    Because they want the right to choose, is that so hard to understand, Its pure Nordic instinct to tell authority to not dictate thought patterns


    They were put in in office by people and are ratifying treaties on their own behalf. In fact this Brexit thing could have been done in parliament as well. They decided to do a referendum instead, giving people the right without checking first what consequences will be
    Labour or Tory, treaties were signed without asking the electorate in a referendum, which is what they did in Ireland (they held a referendum)...completely undemocratic and the resentment festered for decades..Half my family are British so I heard this regularly in discussion


    They have been honest if this vote was allowed, but not astute is the word i would use
    Cameron has created his own special mess but the scepticism was already there

  14. #1304
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    Because they want the right to choose, is that so hard to understand, Its pure Nordic instinct to tell authority to not dictate thought patterns
    So what is holding this referendum back then ? if 20 polls show there isn't sufficient support to join then it should be a safe bet.

    Labour or Tory, treaties were signed without asking the electorate in a referendum, which is what they did in Ireland (they held a referendum)...completely undemocratic and the resentment festered for decades..Half my family are British so I heard this regularly in discussion
    There is no requirement to have a referendum, parliament is empowered to make policy already. Entirely democratic. Where it is undemocratic is when parliament has no say and voting is just cosmetic.

    Cameron has created his own special mess but the scepticism was already there
    Scepticism was there no doubt which is why he should have been cautious about letting this go to a referendum.

    The lesson for other democracies here is be wary about referendums unless prepared to deal with the consequences. And those consequences are what the Brits will be living with from now on.

  15. #1305
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    I for one welcome those consequences , WTO all the way *uck tusk juncker verhofstadt and the rest of the corrupt wankers .

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