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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1261
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    ps kato it wasnt 27 countries it was 26 as Hungary was barred from voting
    Hungary isn't barred in any way and of course voted in favour along with the other 26.

    The "suspension" you presumably mean is that Fidesz, Orban's political party, was suspended by the conservative party bloc in the European Parliament (European People's Party EPP, the same party Tusk, Juncker and Merkel are in). It's just a suspension from taking part in joint meetings of the party bloc, they haven't even kicked them out of the bloc (yet). They can still vote in parliament of course, as that's completely independent of bloc membership. The EPP voted among themselves before doing that btw, without Fidesz. 98.44% in favour of the suspension.

    The "suspension" is not in any way related to the Article 7 proceedings the European Parliament decided against Hungary in September last year, which may at some point lead to an actual suspension of voting rights of Hungary in the EU Council. That decision hasn't been acted on at all yet, being stalled by the Romanian government as the current EU presidency.

  2. #1262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I wonder if the deal was really so bad or whether remain is gaining strength meaning any deal gets rejected. Any attempt to leave is blocked on some pretext.
    Remain doesn't have a majority. The problem is rather that the leavers are split into two camps - pro-Deal and anti-Deal. At least in broad strokes, either of those camps splits into at least three separately structured groups.

    Therefore you basically have the three camps combining:
    - Remain and anti-Deal : in order to reject any Deal to leave
    - anti-Deal and pro-Deal : in order to reject any cancellation of Brexit
    - pro-Deal and Remain : in order to reject any hard border or similar shenanigans

    The party whip (voting discipline) has been completely lifted for the Tories. Labour insists on the whip only if it's a motion proposed by them. Hence why you don't have the usual camps along party lines either.

  3. #1263
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    North Stream 2? That's pretty much a non-issue here. We're building it. For us. For the company that owns that gas field, and whose HQ is not even 25 km from me.
    Didn't realise Bavaria extended to the outskirts of Moscow.


    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    The annexation of Crimea? Pretty much internal Soviet politics. Sorry, we're still kinda stuck on that. Don't agree in this regard personally.
    One would have thought that the removal of the wall in Berlin and the subsequent reunification of Germany may have caused of realisation that the USSR was collapsing.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    The interference in our political system? There's others we consider far more dangerous in this regard.
    North Stream 2 is an influence operation.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Moscow isn't considered to be anyone important, sorry. Merkel's designate prospective successor Kramp-Karrenbauer made a speech just today. Mostly some blabla about how we shouldn't let certain superpowers dictate what we're doing in any way. She named two. Guess who wasn't among them.
    The problem is there is a growing gap between German 'European rhetoric' (all the 'European solidarity' stuff) and actions, which from both London and Kyiv are to a greater or lesser extent seen as self interested. Should such terms as you proposed in post #1252 be offered to the UK it would be detrimental to both - and probably others as war would ensue. Nor is for Germany to demand compensation regarding Gibralter any more than it may be for the UK to demand compensation be made for the occupation of Schleswig-Holstein, or demand that Germany pay war compensation to Poland and Ukraine for example. All nations have done wrong in the past but England is not about make a claim against Normandy for 1066 as it would be pointless. The past is done - the wrongs in many cases cannot be righted and dragging them up again is a device of the enemies of European unity. The future however is for the making and for that reason I believe it is in the EU interests to offer decent terms to the UK - and in future to Ukraine.

    It is one thing to moan about Trump but moaning about the US contribution to NATO and European security is positively destructive to that security.

  4. #1264
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Didn't realise Bavaria extended to the outskirts of Moscow.
    As far as money is concerned? We're talking about the largest chemical producer in the world. BASF owns Wintershall, which basically owns interests in gas wells in Russia (both at Yuzhno Russkoye and Urengoy) with production soon exceeding what Nord Stream can currently transport. And the reason for that can be found in Washington btw, not in Moscow. Basically investment in Libya and Iran being written off and rerouted to acquiring more of Urengoy. Which is why we also need more capacity on that route. And yes, the investment into those gas wells and Nord Stream are directly connected. The previous gas pipeline (Russia - Belarus - Poland - Germany) transported gas from fields in the southern Ural, where BASF isn't involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    One would have thought that the removal of the wall in Berlin and the subsequent reunification of Germany may have caused of realisation that the USSR was collapsing.
    20% of all Germans want the wall back. And the Soviet Union didn't collapse until two years after the wall fell.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    North Stream 2 is an influence operation.
    By Trump? Sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    The problem is there is a growing gap between German 'European rhetoric' (all the 'European solidarity' stuff) and actions, which from both London and Kyiv are to a greater or lesser extent seen as self interested.
    "European solidarity" ends at the borders of the EU. And that's one thing i'm stating seriously and without reservation. Kyiv isn't a member, London won't be a member any more in two weeks.

    There's exactly one reason why Nord Stream was ultimately built. And that's because Kyiv threatened to cut gas transit into countries to which "European solidarity" does extend. If a non-member country does that then we won't bend over backwards for them, we'll look for a different route *). And we built it. So we can now nicely circumvent Kyiv in transporting our gas out of Russia and then sell it on to our fellow European Union members ourselves.

    *) I know that sounds strange for a British perspective, because after all they've been bending the EU over for decades. But that's the difference between being a member and not being one.
    Last edited by kato; 29 Mar 19, at 02:20.

  5. #1265
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    How true is this

    Anyone else picked up on this? Found on the Brexit Newsgroup page this morning. "Can anyone confirm the following -- Why is the news outlets in the UK not broadcasting what happened yesterday in the EU? Germany is selling off Euro bonds at minus 5%, that means anyone buying them is paying 5% more than they are worth. Reported at over a billion Euros of bonds. This is to support the Euro which at midday went into free fall across the world. Recession is hitting Germany and France and the World Bank is reporting that Euro debt in 19 member states is out of control with the strong possibility that it will go into default. The £ went up 11 cents in minutes with traders dumping Euros in favour of Sterling. The investors in the industrial backbone of Europe have began selling off shares causing the European Central Bank to intervene. Reports state that this has got nothing to do with BREXIT but has been the result of poor government management by Brussels, corruption and over inflated production. If this continues across Euro member states, which is predicted highly likely, then the collapse of the EU is inevitable."

  6. #1266
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    How true is this

    Anyone else picked up on this? Found on the Brexit Newsgroup page this morning. "Can anyone confirm the following -- Why is the news outlets in the UK not broadcasting what happened yesterday in the EU? Germany is selling off Euro bonds at minus 5%, that means anyone buying them is paying 5% more than they are worth. Reported at over a billion Euros of bonds. This is to support the Euro which at midday went into free fall across the world. Recession is hitting Germany and France and the World Bank is reporting that Euro debt in 19 member states is out of control with the strong possibility that it will go into default. The £ went up 11 cents in minutes with traders dumping Euros in favour of Sterling. The investors in the industrial backbone of Europe have began selling off shares causing the European Central Bank to intervene. Reports state that this has got nothing to do with BREXIT but has been the result of poor government management by Brussels, corruption and over inflated production. If this continues across Euro member states, which is predicted highly likely, then the collapse of the EU is inevitable."
    Negative interest is a push to keep people spending rather than saving, you can't really sell bonds at a loss it defeats the purpose. If it costs 1 to keep 100 in the bankvs earning 1 you keep your money out of the bank. It might go under the mattress, but cash in hand is hard not to spend. Its a form of non-tax revenue or QE based economic stimulus.

    And given how long it take the British to leave anything you will still be around and dragged down with them. Saw a meme where and Indian was telling someone they had to be patient because it took the Brits forever to leave, when an Irishman popped in and said, we know that for sure.

    Hope you are well.

  7. #1267
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    As far as money is concerned? We're talking about the largest chemical producer in the world. BASF owns Wintershall, which basically owns interests in gas wells in Russia (both at Yuzhno Russkoye and Urengoy) with production soon exceeding what Nord Stream can currently transport. And the reason for that can be found in Washington btw, not in Moscow. Basically investment in Libya and Iran being written off and rerouted to acquiring more of Urengoy. Which is why we also need more capacity on that route. And yes, the investment into those gas wells and Nord Stream are directly connected. The previous gas pipeline (Russia - Belarus - Poland - Germany) transported gas from fields in the southern Ural, where BASF isn't involved.
    Are you kidding? North Stream is was and always has been a Gazprom project, which your former Chancellor Shroeder sits on the board of (for a guarantee of 3bn euros he gave to North Stream 1 just before leaving office) and Putin's ex Stasi 'comrade' Matthias Warnig enables.


    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    "European solidarity" ends at the borders of the EU. And that's one thing i'm stating seriously and without reservation. Kyiv isn't a member, London won't be a member any more in two weeks.
    Or does it end at the German border? Poland and Slovakia stand to lose from North Stream 2 as well.

    Seems you have some problems with them pesky Danes on building it at present.

  8. #1268
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Are you kidding? North Stream is was and always has been a Gazprom project
    The North European Gas Pipeline Company, later renamed Nord Stream, was financed by:
    - 51% Gazprom (Russia)
    - 24.5% BASF (Germany)
    - 24.5% E.On (Germany)

    The non-Russian shares were later redistributed with the entry of Gasunie (Netherlands) and Engie (France).

    The controlling Gazprom share was mitigated by E.On itself owning 6.5% of Gazprom at the time, and various deals over the next three years leading to E.On and BASF jointly holding 60% of Sevneftegazprom and 50% of Achimgaz, i.e. Gazprom's companies at the two fields supplying Nord Stream.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    (for a guarantee of 3bn euros he gave to North Stream 1 just before leaving office)
    Except he never did that... and yeah, i know, that one does tend to stay firmly entrenched with some people regardless of how often you tell them.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Or does it end at the German border? Poland and Slovakia stand to lose from North Stream 2 as well.
    Slovakia? Sure. Though from statements from Fico in 2016 it sounds like they've been bought off. The fact that Eustream (Slovakia) has a "ship-or-pay" contract with Gazprom guaranteeing payments until 2028 may also play a role there. And the fact that they've been actively working rebuilding their infrastructure to go into a reverse transit role. Pumping European gas into Ukraine.

    Poland not so much, because the Ukrainian pipelines didn't go through Poland. In fact Poland got the Yamal-Europe pipeline built by Gazprom for the same purpose, circumventing Ukraine, and at the same time as Nord Stream.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Seems you have some problems with them pesky Danes on building it at present.
    Problems? Only a warning shot. Denmark has not rejected the two ongoing construction permit applications by Nord Stream.
    Last edited by kato; 29 Mar 19, at 16:42.

  9. #1269
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    Theresa May's 'leave deal' failed a third vote in the HoC apparently 344 votes against to 286 for, this after she apparently told the Tory 1922 Committee (which decides leadership matters) on Wednesday that if the Tory extreme Brexiteers backed her deal she would resign as PM. April 12th is now legal Brexit default date but Tusk (the President of the EU Council) has said he will call a Council meeting on April 10th - presumably in order to give a longer extension.

    Apparently the way the Government was able to put this to the vote for a third time is by what might be considered a 'sleight of hand' and by just voting on the leave section of the 'deal' without the political part. Not sure exactly what that means really myself but apparently a seen as a bit of ruse.

    The next problem becomes - if a further extension is sought and agreed to - does the UK participate in the European elections? I heard an interview with George Osborne (the former Chancellor and still one of the best political minds in the UK in my view) in which he argued that UK participation in the European elections would be a chance for the a third Party in the centre to emerge; the people vs Farage. Not sure that will happen, the Tiggies (Independent Group) will apparently register as a new political Party called "Change UK, the Independent Group" so perhaps European elections would benefit them as they are solid 'remoaners'.

    I am quite looking forward to the Ukrainian Presidential election on Sunday where at least it seems a real comedian will top the polls in the first round.

  10. #1270
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    The next problem becomes - if a further extension is sought and agreed to - does the UK participate in the European elections?
    The question would rather be whether the UK can offer up anything in order for the council to grant them an extension again. And i'm not seeing any chance of that. They might be able to swing something if they call a general election within the next two weeks (in order to reorder Westminster for a pro-deal Brexit) and then come asking for an extension to the end of 2020.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I am quite looking forward to the Ukrainian Presidential election on Sunday where at least it seems a real comedian will top the polls in the first round.
    Well, you can see in Italy what happens when a country elects a comedian...

  11. #1271
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    It's likely there's a high side for the EU if Britain leaves. The EU is soon to become another serious competitor to the US and it's unfair trade policy being brought on by the Trump regime. The EU doesn't need to have Britain's alliance with the US to worry about.

    The lines are being drawn and the EU is going to be literally forced to gravitate away from US trade and more toward China, as Trump causes more cracks to widen.

    The US economy, as well as it's relationship with it's allies is not likely to be capable of tolerating Trump's malfeasance for much longer. Americans themselves must understand the sort of ditch that Trump is digging for his country. Socially unacceptable capitalism is on it's death bed as the world's happiest countries rise to promote 'socially responsible capitalism'.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/duncanm...world-in-2018/

  12. #1272
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    When the elites are asked to do the opposite of their self interest...The self interested become the burden. Too many fingers in this pie for sure. Conclusion is paralysis leading to a revolt peaceful or not.

  13. #1273
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    Watching the Mps vote for a Brexit deal is like watching Turkeys vote for Christmas

  14. #1274
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    They need a "fair" deal.
    They need "out-of-this-world" at Gods level solution to satisfy both the EU & UK.
    Otherwise, it will not end well.

    I have "working" solution will satisfy both the EU & the UK, but I am not going to give it for free. Guarantee 100% satisfy if not 100% refund, but the cost is 100 euro per citizens from all 28 EU nations.

  15. #1275
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    Hi, Please forward this message/email to the Europe, UK, EU & all other groups/societ

    Hi,
    Please forward this message/email to the Europe, UK, EU & all other groups/societies. Thank you very much.


    I have “Satisfy” Solution for All about Brexit, France, Germany & EU crisis, but at a cost !!!


    Hello the UK, EU, Europe & all,


    I am the Messiah in the Bible, I already provided many solutions for the whole world economy like the Global Free Fair Trade Union, The New International Border Zone standard in full details, and the new Diversity Unique Nation Ranking in brief details.


    The time for me is up & everything has limit.


    I cannot help specific nation, zone but only have the whole Earth system.


    But there is a special case at this moment because I already said offer all nations chance to “use the service” at “cost”, not free until 19/04/2019.


    Back to Brexit, Europe, EU problems:


    In short: I have a “close to perfect” solution to satisfy all of you, if not 100% refund !!!

    In more detail:

    The deadline April, 12th, 2019 is comming, you must decide quick.

    Here is the cost: 100 euro every citizens in the whole EU (28 states), so total about: 52 billion Euro.


    How the “transaction” will go:

    1. I will provide & give you the solution in full details.

    2. If “all of you” satisfy & agree, then you pay me the money.

    3. If not “satisfy” you, then you do not need pay any money, but not allowed to use any ideas I provided.


    * Must have a “referee” like the Asia society, or big Government like the Russia + US + China.

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    or can through any “platform” if you want.


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    Regard,

    Messiah Mahdi Maitreya Kalki

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