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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #106
    Banned tankie's Avatar
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    Do the islanders really think that European electorates care about them? I mean, the opinion on the street here is sorta the same as with Trump. They voted for it, they deserve it. Let them crash and burn.

    kato

    No we dont think that , hence \/ ,,,,,,, brexit is pissing all over the plans of the 4th reich , and many more exits to follow . On the sts of little England we think the same as you , you voted for merkel , you deserve her , the commy bitch , but we dont reflect too hard as we laugh and watch you crash and burn ,,,,, Just think a marraige between Farage and Lepenn ,, woo hoo made in heaven , haha .Ta but our money is gonna stay here except for the 12 billion we borrow to give away in foreign aid debacle . And as soon as we stop the flow of money to the corrupt 4th reich the better .

    We have been burnt before , and guess who started the fire , guess who put it out , you really need to see a doctor , your xenophobia is shining thro , while your their take merkel with you ,even mengele would have problems sorting you lot out , crash n burn huh , haa a teutonic hissy fit is it , and as for the electorate not caring in germanistan ref brexit or Trump , wrong , your jealous ol froot ,seems the likes of tusk / merkel / juncker / etc etc are a tad miffed as we have the balls to say FUCK YOU lot , AGAIN, your lederhosen replaced by long frocks sheep n goat shaggers n women dressed like bin bags , sei sind willkommen tortenarsche .
    Last edited by tankie; 13 Apr 17, at 01:43.

  2. #107
    Banned tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    tankie,

    First - hello again, it has been a long time.

    Brexit - unfortunately the middle ground has been hollowed out - both sides, EU and UK, are now playing hardball and taking extreme positions.

    I am hopeful for the future of both the EU and the UK - and hope that both are able to land on their feet uninjured. As an American, I'm an outsider on this debate, and I obviously have no influence whatsoever regarding any of these events that are transpiring. I'm merely watching from afar in the manner of the private citizen I have always been, and hopefully, my outsider perspective isn't seen as meddlesome.

    I look forward to re-joining this discussion, I'll be back on the thread over the coming days.
    Hya matey , some sabbatical you been on hey WB young fella .

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    1. Heracles*
    2. Not Atlas?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Hercules

  4. #109
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Good to see you again.
    Same here. WB.

    I remember you and the late and much bellowed Mr. Lukins were the first to greet me here.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Do the islanders really think that European electorates care about them? I mean, the opinion on the street here is sorta the same as with Trump. They voted for it, they deserve it. Let them crash and burn.

    For any consequences, financially or otherwise, our electorate holds solely the British responsible.


    Well, the two-speed in that is mostly the UK bowing out or getting some sort of special deal, occasionally pulling others along (e.g. Ireland for Schengen, Denmark for the Euro...). A lot of that thing will come under scrutiny once we're rid of Britain. For example, the Euro? Every EU state except the UK and Denmark is obligated to join it already now, and after Brexit over 75% of the Union will use the Euro. Schengen? Only one out is Ireland. Customs Union, EUCU? Everyone's in. EEA and EFTA? Well, the EEA is defined as the combination of EFTA and EU. Pretty simple. It'll be the same with a lot of things. We'll just have to put some pressure on them. And now that we'll no longer be under the Crown's thumb it's a good opportunity for that.

    Im sure we will crash, and perhaps the UK will not survive it. I worry that the anger you hear from the quiters seems to be redirected against the Germans since Article 50.
    A large number of them eternally fanatasize over world war 2, it's like a mental illness. When Brexit fails they wont blame themselves for the stupid decision, they will blame 'the remoaners', but probably Germany more than anyone. When the government fail to get everything they ask for in the negotiations they will cast it as 'EU punishment'.

    Dont hate the UK for this, remember it was a slim majority for quitting, and every day that passes brings more young remainers on the voteing rolls and fewer old leavers.
    Last edited by zara; 13 Apr 17, at 13:09.

  6. #111
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Im sure we will crash, and perhaps the UK will not survive it. I worry that the anger you hear from the quiters seem to be redirected against the Germans since Article 50.
    A large number of them eternally fanatasize over world war 2, it's like a mental illness. When Brexit fails they wont blame themselves for the stupid decision, they will blame 'the remoaners', but probably Germany more than anyone. When the government fail to get everything they ask for in the negotiations they will cast it as 'EU punishment'.

    Dont hate the UK for this, remember it was a slim majority for quitting, and every day that passes brings more young remainers on the voteing roles and fewer old leavers.
    Geez, you are saying sorry for what your compatriots (which you are to leave if and when given a chance) voted for over a fair and not rigged referendum?

    What's next, offer the EU to govern your country for the next 99 years and pay them for it?

    All you need is a Stalin for 20 years to come back to your common senses
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  7. #112
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    Starting the fun stuff:

    'The UK is being targeted!' EU to block UK firms from space programme in BREXIT REVENGE
    THE European Union (EU) is looking to nudge out British companies from the ongoing Galileo space project, it has been revealed.
    By Jon Rogers
    PUBLISHED: 10:26, Thu, Apr 13, 2017 | UPDATED: 11:45, Thu, Apr 13, 2017

    Brussels is now demanding the right to cancel existing contracts with any supplier if the firm is no longer based with the EU community.

    In addition European Commission is insisting any supplier removed from the project would be expected to repay all costs to the EU for finding a replacement.

    The ongoing Galileo satellite navigation system is an EU-funded project, managed by the European Space Agency, and worth £8.5 billion (€10bn) with the work shared out amongst the member countries.

    The move means any UK company currently involved in the project would have to renegotiate terms with the EU if it wanted to remain on board.

    British companies with interests in the project include Qinetiq, CGI, Airbus and Scisys.

    The clause has raised concerns both with companies and the government as it effectively rules out British firms from participating even while it remains a member of the block.

    While signed contracts invariably run for a number of years the new terms mean that any deal could be ripped up with immediate effect once the 2019 Brexit deadline has passed.

    A UK government official said: “It feels like the UK is being targeted.

    “We have been fighting to stay involved in Galileo whereas some European partners are working to push us out.”

    One supplier currently involved in the project told the Financial Times the clause “makes it quite difficult for a company in the UK to contemplate bidding.”

    The new clauses will apply to the contracts for the latest, delayed, phase of the project which could be worth around £339 million (€400m) to UK companies.

    Science Minster Jo Johnson is believed to have met with the EU Commissioner Elzbieta Bienkowska to air his concerns about the move.

    Head of the trade association UKspace Richard Peckham said: “Since the UK Government has so far failed to make any clear statement of intent or even a wish to remain in these important EU space programmes, it is not surprising that the EU is cautious about UK industry participation.”

    The development has caused at least two UK firms to consider the possibility of relocating their operations to within an EU member state.

    A senior executive from a UK-based space systems company said: “We may be forced to consider withdrawing from our UK market operations.”

    Another said: "We will be looking at… who is best placed to participate. If you have the option not to do work from the UK this gives you a reason to think that is safer.”

    A commission spokesman said that “similar” termination clauses have been standard since 2003, and insisted that the new clause was “not prepared in view of Brexit”.

    Mr Johnson has said the Government is committed to developing a successful UK space programme.

    He said: “The UK plays a significant role in the design, construction and operation of the Galileo and Copernicus space programmes.

    “UK businesses and organisations are continuing to bid for EU space contracts.

    “Our space sector is one of our greatest success stories, contributing £13.8 billion annually to our economy. This government is committed to boosting the success of this industry and, through the introduction of the draft Spaceflight Bill and our modern Industrial Strategy, we are ensuring we have the environment and infrastructure in place to continue leading the way in space observation and technologies.”

    In December last year the UK Space Agency allocated more than £1.2bn over a five year period to various European Space Agency programmes during a Council of Ministers meeting in Switzerland.

    At the time, Mr Johnson said: “We are committed to ensuring the UK remains at the forefront of new technologies, science and daring space exploration. Our sustained investment – alongside our upcoming Industrial Strategy – will ensure we build on the strengths of the UK’s growing space industry.”
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/791...o-UK-firms-out

    Other than the headline (that's the Daily Express for you) not that bad an article.

    Could point out more things yet to come though; Galileo isn't be the only thing the EU runs in space that the UK will see themselves shut out of. At least Copernicus receives n honorable mention though.
    Last edited by kato; 13 Apr 17, at 13:16.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Geez, you are saying sorry for what your compatriots (which you are to leave if and when given a chance) voted for over a fair and not rigged referendum?

    What's next, offer the EU to govern your country for the next 99 years and pay them for it?

    All you need is a Stalin for 20 years to come back to your common senses
    Tankie is right, she's a self indulgent cabbage. Incapable of seeing outside her own narrow perspective. Kato is another one..full of statistics but no heart or common sense. Both probably did well in school but struggle to relate to real life and would rather stay at home, afraid of what might lurk outside.....

  9. #114
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Im sure we will crash, and perhaps the UK will not survive it. I worry that the anger you hear from the quiters seems to be redirected against the Germans since Article 50.
    A large number of them eternally fanatasize over world war 2, it's like a mental illness. When Brexit fails they wont blame themselves for the stupid decision, they will blame 'the remoaners', but probably Germany more than anyone. When the government fail to get everything they ask for in the negotiations they will cast it as 'EU punishment'.

    Dont hate the UK for this, remember it was a slim majority for quitting, and every day that passes brings more young remainers on the voteing rolls and fewer old leavers.
    Just a brief comment - too busy to full address points being made... I'm looking at the big picture and am not going to get lost in the weeds regarding minor success stories concerning factories in rural Slovakia or some mid-sized Polish city (no offense intended, kato).

    We cannot dismiss the experiences of people such as tankie and others. What they are experiencing is very real - they are simply experiencing a different reality than you, kato, or I. It does not alter the fact that what they are experiencing is in fact reality. We are not living in tankie's reality, and we struggle to understand it. I have personally lived in both realities - and I have family that live in both realities.

    You may feel that they are misdirecting their anger and frustration - but it does not erase the simple fact that people from the regions tankie and other live in - they are experiencing very real pain, are being left behind, and are considered disposable by the elites in the metropoles, these concentrated areas that have benefited so much under deindustrialization and the growing economies of scale there.

    The question that should be being asked is - how do we help these people, so they are not left behind, so their families are not shattered - before a Brexit or Trump is voted into office? By not looking after the very real needs of these people - worse alternatives emerge. Brexit and Trump are two harmful outcomes of these trends in Western civilization - but because the trends were ignored, the middle ground was vaporized, tens/100s of millions of people felt that their hand was forced in voting for these outcomes.

    What we have is a failure of the hyper-successful metropole middle class and elite to include people on both the margins of society, as well as the outer marginal areas outside the metropoles, in the forward progress of civilization and its benefits. These people are truly suffering - and it is not all their fault. Their feelings are visceral and come from a genuine place, but by failing to address these major problems for so many decades - people are now reacting in unexpected ways that can cause more harm than good.

    There was a middle ground with regards to the EU and UK.

    Juncker and company - Schumaniste and Monnetiste ideologues with their hands on the levers of power, going places and taking things to levels that are relatively extreme - though they may pass themselves off as centrists, moderates, and the voice of reason - they are not, they are quite radical. Billions for the metropole - but lipstick on a pig and a few peanuts for Cornwall. Altogether, what is occurring on EU, with some major caveats and exceptions, has some similarities Djugashvili's crash industrialization/centralization program in the 1930s.

    Farange and company are likewise quite radical, and represent a reaction to radical centralization with an equally, if not even more radically opposite position. I see echoes, albeit not quite on the same level, of the Bohemian corporal with the ridiculous Chaplin mustache here.

    What we see is two radical factions - generally speaking - the radical centralizers vs the radical de-centralizers, both manipulating and taking advantage of various facts and feelings on the ground - but where is the middle?

    It's been marginalized and almost entirely disappeared. It is gone, for now. History is, with some caveats and exceptions, and different economic circumstances - repeating what occurred ~80-90 years ago.

    P.S. - I've made references to both the Chaplin-mustachioed Bohemian corporal and the perpetually drunk, power hungry Djugashvili here - I will not refer them to by name or nom de guerre, as these are loaded with historical baggage. To invoke their names for the purposes of making comparisons - Godwin's law. I will only refer to them in a manner that cuts them down to size and de-mysticizes them back down to what they truly were - not what they became.

    I do not intend to divert this discussion in the direction of the Corporal with the stupid mustache, or the alcoholic Georgian with the lame leg.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 13 Apr 17, at 18:10.

  10. #115
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    Hya matey , some sabbatical you been on hey WB young fella .
    I had to allow you to surpass me in post count. :-)
    Last edited by Ironduke; 13 Apr 17, at 17:46.

  11. #116
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    Hahaha yea cheers , liked your last post .

    Hey kato , seems like your politicians dont share your views

    The UK government has slapped down the call from German politician Katarina Barley for a second referendum.

    Now why would the krauts want that i wonder ,,, NOT.And what hás it really got to do with anyone except the UK
    Last edited by tankie; 13 Apr 17, at 19:06.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Just a brief comment - too busy to full address points being made... I'm looking at the big picture and am not going to get lost in the weeds regarding minor success stories concerning factories in rural Slovakia or some mid-sized Polish city (no offense intended, kato).

    We cannot dismiss the experiences of people such as tankie and others. What they are experiencing is very real - they are simply experiencing a different reality than you, kato, or I. It does not alter the fact that what they are experiencing is in fact reality. We are not living in tankie's reality, and we struggle to understand it. I have personally lived in both realities - and I have family that live in both realities.

    You may feel that they are misdirecting their anger and frustration - but it does not erase the simple fact that people from the regions tankie and other live in - they are experiencing very real pain, are being left behind, and are considered disposable by the elites in the metropoles, these concentrated areas that have benefited so much under deindustrialization and the growing economies of scale there.

    The question that should be being asked is - how do we help these people, so they are not left behind, so their families are not shattered - before a Brexit or Trump is voted into office? By not looking after the very real needs of these people - worse alternatives emerge. Brexit and Trump are two harmful outcomes of these trends in Western civilization - but because the trends were ignored, the middle ground was vaporized, tens/100s of millions of people felt that their hand was forced in voting for these outcomes.

    What we have is a failure of the hyper-successful metropole middle class and elite to include people on both the margins of society, as well as the outer marginal areas outside the metropoles, in the forward progress of civilization and its benefits. These people are truly suffering - and it is not all their fault. Their feelings are visceral and come from a genuine place, but by failing to address these major problems for so many decades - people are now reacting in unexpected ways that can cause more harm than good.

    There was a middle ground with regards to the EU and UK.

    Juncker and company - Schumaniste and Monnetiste ideologues with their hands on the levers of power, going places and taking things to levels that are relatively extreme - though they may pass themselves off as centrists, moderates, and the voice of reason - they are not, they are quite radical. Billions for the metropole - but lipstick on a pig and a few peanuts for Cornwall. Altogether, what is occurring on EU, with some major caveats and exceptions, has some similarities Djugashvili's crash industrialization/centralization program in the 1930s.

    Farange and company are likewise quite radical, and represent a reaction to radical centralization with an equally, if not even more radically opposite position.

    What we see is two radical factions - generally speaking - the radical centralizers vs the radical de-centralizers, both manipulating and taking advantage of various facts and feelings on the ground - but where is the middle?

    It's been marginalized and almost entirely disappeared. It is gone, for now.
    I agree with alot of what you're saying. But not everybody that voted Brexit or Trump did so because they are suffering economically due to deindustrialisation. Many are doing quite well outside of the so called Middle class. The New working class....Roofers, electricians, engineers etc can earn very good money (and alot of us are self employed) and tend to have a very proud sense of Nationality, something which it becomes apparent from talking to various characters on here and listening to the left wing media in the UK is sneered upon. This is the reason why the British Labour party has lost its core support. The UK in particular has spent way to much time over the last few decades encouraging Teenagers to aim at going to University and not enough has been done to help those who are not unintelligent but not academically minded. Getting them into apprenticeships and promoting skilled jobs as something which is rewarding. People in the main who have gone into skilled jobs have done so inspite of government backing. They've done it off their own back!
    Anyway I digress, My point is that you can't dilute our sense of who we are. Whether we are successful or not We're British in the same way an American is proud to be an American.

  13. #118
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Just a brief comment - too busy to full address points being made... I'm looking at the big picture and am not going to get lost in the weeds regarding minor success stories concerning factories in rural Slovakia or some mid-sized Polish city (no offense intended, kato).

    We cannot dismiss the experiences of people such as tankie and others. What they are experiencing is very real - they are simply experiencing a different reality than you, kato, or I. It does not alter the fact that what they are experiencing is in fact reality. We are not living in tankie's reality, and we struggle to understand it. I have personally lived in both realities - and I have family that live in both realities.

    You may feel that they are misdirecting their anger and frustration - but it does not erase the simple fact that people from the regions tankie and other live in - they are experiencing very real pain, are being left behind, and are considered disposable by the elites in the metropoles, these concentrated areas that have benefited so much under deindustrialization and the growing economies of scale there.

    The question that should be being asked is - how do we help these people, so they are not left behind, so their families are not shattered - before a Brexit or Trump is voted into office? By not looking after the very real needs of these people - worse alternatives emerge. Brexit and Trump are two harmful outcomes of these trends in Western civilization - but because the trends were ignored, the middle ground was vaporized, tens/100s of millions of people felt that their hand was forced in voting for these outcomes.

    What we have is a failure of the hyper-successful metropole middle class and elite to include people on both the margins of society, as well as the outer marginal areas outside the metropoles, in the forward progress of civilization and its benefits. These people are truly suffering - and it is not all their fault. Their feelings are visceral and come from a genuine place, but by failing to address these major problems for so many decades - people are now reacting in unexpected ways that can cause more harm than good.

    There was a middle ground with regards to the EU and UK.

    Juncker and company - Schumaniste and Monnetiste ideologues with their hands on the levers of power, going places and taking things to levels that are relatively extreme - though they may pass themselves off as centrists, moderates, and the voice of reason - they are not, they are quite radical. Billions for the metropole - but lipstick on a pig and a few peanuts for Cornwall. Altogether, what is occurring on EU, with some major caveats and exceptions, has some similarities Djugashvili's crash industrialization/centralization program in the 1930s.

    Farange and company are likewise quite radical, and represent a reaction to radical centralization with an equally, if not even more radically opposite position. I see echoes, albeit not quite on the same level, of the Bohemian corporal with the ridiculous Chaplin mustache here.

    What we see is two radical factions - generally speaking - the radical centralizers vs the radical de-centralizers, both manipulating and taking advantage of various facts and feelings on the ground - but where is the middle?

    It's been marginalized and almost entirely disappeared. It is gone, for now. History is, with some caveats and exceptions, and different economic circumstances - repeating what occurred ~80-90 years ago.

    P.S. - I've made references to both the Chaplin-mustachioed Bohemian corporal and the perpetually drunk, power hungry Djugashvili here - I will not refer them to by name or nom de guerre, as these are loaded with historical baggage. To invoke their names for the purposes of making comparisons - Godwin's law. I will only refer to them in a manner that cuts them down to size and de-mysticizes them back down to what they truly were - not what they became.

    I do not intend to divert this discussion in the direction of the Corporal with the stupid mustache, or the alcoholic Georgian with the lame leg.
    Nicely put.

    What you only skimmed there is that the Commission turned itself into, well, a Commission. They don't take No for an answer, nor do take it as a warning that their needs adjustments to gather more people around. They just push their agenda which is not well explained to everyone and anyone and just turn themselves into a giant bureaucratic monster. Moreover, since the '90s they lost all the moral high ground about efficiency and liberalization. Something that was used against the very Commission, and in my opinion fairly so. The EC/EU reaction to UK's leave just show more of their arrogance.

    Kato keeps reminding that UK was given a discount on membership, but forgets that even with that discount the UK was net contributor, unlike many others. Is it reasonable to ask UK to pay her "due" and ask for Gibraltar? If I were a Brit, I'd surely feel cornered and frustrated, something that is not OK for anyone.

    Wonder how the French will do on their elections and what will that mean for the EU.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  14. #119
    Banned tankie's Avatar
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    I hope Penn gets in . Another piss on katos pommes

  15. #120

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    Why?

    You have what you want. Britain ist out. With all Consequences. Ok, in 2 Years but thats not a long time.
    But i think, you doesn't want Britain out of the EU, you are angry about the existence of the EU as a whole.

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