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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1066
    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    I think what matters more is what the Brits want
    Most want out of this nonsense. We even had a vote on it.

  2. #1067
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I think what matters more is what the Brits want, ofcourse with help and guidance from the current US administration. It's their future, afterall.
    I would be interested in knowing what the Scots and others want. Britain doesn't just belong to the English
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  3. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I think what matters more is what the Brits want, ofcourse with help and guidance from the current US administration. It's their future, afterall.
    Well actually I do not think the Yanks have anything to do with it... Trump even said recently that Brexit may cause trouble for UK/US trade. Nor do I think anyone in Britain knew what Brexit would mean at the time of the first referendum. I remember seeing promises of £750m extra per week for the NHS but that was a blatant lie; any form of Brexit leaves the UK worse off and I do not believe that people voted to be poorer. Now some of the Brexiteers admit they will be worse off I hear but at the time they were telling everyone "don't worry, Europe will do a deal" and mumbling about German car sales in the UK. It was all lies and where the money came from to promote such lies the subject of a criminal inquiry with the suspicion being that it originated from Muscovy. If the money from Aaron Banks - the single largest political donation ever in UK politics - did come from Muscovy and it would of course be illegal but how many Brits would have voted leave if they had known that?

    I must admit I had my suspicions at the time and asked UKIP if they could promise me that none of the donations had sources originating in Muscovy; they equivocated. I asked about offshore accounts - and I mean fair do's my family has had Swiss accounts since pre WW2 but we do not go throwing pennies at political campaigns.

    I am not a fan of the EU as it currently is. It needs massive reform - I mean if we are going to have a President (I think there about 5 at the moment) why not let the people elect him directly so he can held accountable by the Parliament and the people at the next election? The euro was a criminal folly of Gallic grandeur exploited by German efficiency such that the eurozone is effectively a captive German export market. Hell if we could elect a President perhaps I would stand and promise to abolish the euro and 'ever greater union' bumph. When you make a mistake you put your hands up - and learn from it. No the EU is far from ideal or even 'transparent' in the way it should seek to be but that in my view is why Britain should stay in - apart from the fact it makes Britain wealthier.

    I also think that if second referendum were held the decision would be reversed.

  4. #1069
    Banned tankie's Avatar
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    For the first time ever in history a reigning Government has been found in Contempt. So what happens now? In just a week we’ve discovered more lies from May and we’ve discovered Portsmouth North MP, Penny, has turned her back on democracy and her local constituents by backing Mays deal. Some people predict a Vote Of No Confidence could be actioned as quick as next Wednesday! How long can this shambles of a government continue to govern?

  5. #1070
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    For the first time ever in history a reigning Government has been found in Contempt. So what happens now? In just a week we’ve discovered more lies from May and we’ve discovered Portsmouth North MP, Penny, has turned her back on democracy and her local constituents by backing Mays deal. Some people predict a Vote Of No Confidence could be actioned as quick as next Wednesday! How long can this shambles of a government continue to govern?
    You can always pitch for Boris Johnson or JRM to take over
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  6. #1071
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    The stupid bit about this contempt thing is that apparently it relates to a vote back last month for the Government to publish the legal advice which at the time the Government did not oppose. What changed might be right question?

  7. #1072
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    You can always pitch for Boris Johnson or JRM to take over
    Well mate they would imo a better job of it than May , she was and always will be a remainer but her tenure is about up I reckon , and good . Now sod off and let someone who wants brexit take over , shes lied and pissed about for 2 years now when we should have left 2 years ago as the deal she advocates leaves the eu in total control and the uk as a colony .

  8. #1073
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    Well mate they would imo a better job of it than May , she was and always will be a remainer but her tenure is about up I reckon , and good . Now sod off and let someone who wants brexit take over , shes lied and pissed about for 2 years now when we should have left 2 years ago as the deal she advocates leaves the eu in total control and the uk as a colony .
    Exactly how would you have left 2 years ago? Exactly how would you have negotiated around the Good Friday Agreement?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  9. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    why not let the people elect him directly so he can held accountable by the Parliament and the people at the next election?
    What does being elected by the people have to do with accountability?

    Currently 14 nations within the EU elect their presidents directly, accounting for 42% of the population (basically: France, Portugal, Ireland, Austria and everything that only became a democracy in the 90s except for Latvia, Hungary and Estonia). In 8 of those nations the president's government is not accountable to parliament, one is even a unified presidential republic without a separate head of government.

    Accountability to the people is worth scrap.

  10. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    What does being elected by the people have to do with accountability?
    Well it's pretty simple; if you don't like how your MP - or directly elected President - has been doing the job you do not vote for them the next time. Accountable to the electorate.

  11. #1076
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    So I read on the BBC the House of Commons vote on Theresa May's 'Brexit' deal which apparently was promised tomorrow has been called off. No surprise - as I predicted that whatever 'deal' would (or could) be put to the HoC at present would not be able to achieve a majority vote. Why? Because the Tory Party relies on the Northern Ireland Unionists for a majority anyway (and subsequently send GDP millions to Northern Ireland), second because the Labour Party, though split on Europe themselves, think they can win a general election but mostly because the Tory party has ceased to de facto to exist. The liberal Tories - "Remainers" (such as myself in this instance) - now have more in common with the Libdems (who have very few MPs at present). The Brexiteer wing of the Tory Party (and the opportunist Boris Johnson) will accept nothing but a "no deal." Thus stalemate but the clock is ticking...

    To add fuel to the fire today the European Court (to which the UK is still subject until March 29th next year) today ruled that Article 50 - the declaration of leaving the EU - could be unilaterally 'rolled back' by the UK; other EU members would not have a say in it and everything, refund etc... continue as if it was some bad dream.

    Latest poll by YouGov says: European Union membership referendum Scenario: Remain vs. May Deal Remain: 62% (+12) Leave: 38% (-12). So of course the Brexit supporters, though it is proven that there is no financial benefit in leaving the EU by every source from the BoE to the IMF and the Exchequer, reject any further vote. However in the House of Commons the hard-line 'Brexiteers' (in both the main Parties) are in a minority.

    Apparently Theresa May wishes to go back to the EU and get some concessions on the Northern Ireland "back stop" agreement; the 'back stop' meaning that Northern Ireland would de facto remain within the EU Customs Union - and therefore being unacceptable to the Irish Unionists on which the Government depends for it's majority. Well good luck with that... You see the Irish border problem I do not recall was ever mentioned during the referendum campaign. Nobody thought of it. But how can you want a 'hard' border between Dover and Calais and not have the same at the border with the EU in Ireland? But to create a 'hard' border in Ireland (again) breaks the Treaty that ended the 'troubles'.

    The thing is the Tories are at each others throats over Europe but united in self interest - keep Comrade Corbyn out. Theresa May has probably blown this time by backing out; she had no choice for had she lost a motion of 'No Confidence' was bound to pass. Corbyn would be a disaster and bankrupt the nation, probably start stealing peoples property to house the homeless etc, May I think was doomed almost from the start but barring some sense from the near rabid Tory hard-line 'Brexiteers' (and opportunist Boris) it looks increasingly like that is where the UK will go.

    In some ways you have to respect Mrs May; she has done her best and the 'deal' she has come back with does deliver a 'Brexit'. Her big mistake - which I said at the time - was the same as Gordon Brown's; after taking over she did not immediately go to the electorate. Instead she waited - hesitated and dithered - and when she did call an election lost the majority instead of increasing it.

    I hope the UK will find it's senses again soon before 'Brexit' makes them poorer or Corbyn bankrupts them.

  12. #1077
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    Sry double post.
    Last edited by snapper; 11 Dec 18, at 00:54.

  13. #1078
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    Teresa May returns from Germany waving a piece of paper...

  14. #1079
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    When are you guys going to decide whether you are European or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Accountability to the people is worth scrap.
    Great line. Now think about the conditions in developing countries. There is zero accountability, if any at all.
    Last edited by Oracle; 11 Dec 18, at 13:14.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  15. #1080
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    I do not understand the British
    After all, it was calculated that the exit from the EU would cost them 25% of GDP, that is, minus 25% of the country's GDP
    It is so stupid
    In addition, it will hit on tourism
    If earlier it was possible to buy a house in Cyprus https://tranio.com/cyprus/detached/ , get a residence permit and travel, including to Britain, then after Brexit it will be impossible, respectively, income from tourism will fall

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