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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #946
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    I realise that much of the mainstream doesn't enter into your train of thought ideological speaking..but the masses are saying ....'enough' so if you guys represent the intelligensia then I recommend you start listening and start formulating....good luck!

  2. #947
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I realise that much of the mainstream doesn't enter into your train of thought ideological speaking..but the masses are saying ....'enough' so if you guys represent the intelligensia then I recommend you start listening and start formulating....good luck!
    Then the UK should just leave and play by WTO rules.

  3. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Then the UK should just leave and play by WTO rules.
    Why?

  4. #949
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Why?
    The masses said enough, voted "leave" and playing by WTO rules with no special considerations is more than fair.

    The UK is not entitled to any special treatment.

  5. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    The masses said enough, voted "leave" and playing by WTO rules with no special considerations is more than fair.

    The UK is not entitled to any special treatment.
    Thats a two way street and would hurt the EU more...not to mention the individual states that the trade tariffs would hit....I understand there are two ways of looking at this. But only a political dreamer would argue against tariff free access. Simply because its the most practical solution to help industry/jobs remain unharmed.

  6. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Where's that from, Zerohedge or something comparable? I mean, they are quoting a Lega representative and effectively run with his opinion for the piece. Do they even know what Italians think about Lega? One date for a hint: 1922.
    Well 5 million or 17% voted for them on Sunday. In Veneto they got 50%....so I would put your reservations to one side.....and acknowledge the problems and concerns that created this centre right vote....

  7. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    In what sense is the UK being punished? Its being offered 3rd country status and asked to pay its bills?
    The UK are being dictated to at present by unelected representatives with an impracticle massively ideological agenda. Which is why the talks are going round and round....

  8. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    The UK are being dictated to at present by unelected representatives with an impracticle massively ideological agenda. Which is why the talks are going round and round....
    They are not dictating anything. The UK is free to make its own choices. It has offered various flavours of deals. There is no coercion here. Brexiters love playing the victim.

  9. #954
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    To be fair they seem hell bent on "punishing" the UK to their own detriment as well.

  10. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    They are not dictating anything. The UK is free to make its own choices. It has offered various flavours of deals. There is no coercion here. Brexiters love playing the victim.
    Thats a media invention....'brexiteer' its absurd.....and only helps to diguise the real issues. Im quite happy to leave trade with out tariffs to help the working population of all countries in the EU.....which in monetery terms is alot more valuable to the EU....if you take 2015, the trade deficit with the EU was over 100 billion in the EU's favour...30 billion of which was with Germany.....why sacrifice that in favour of a political experiment that is flawed?
    Another myth is people who voted leave are anti immigration.....They're not! The vast majority just wish to control the flow. Which is sensible.

  11. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Im quite happy to leave trade with out tariffs to help the working population of all countries in the EU.....
    Ah, but the real question is - what are you willing to give up to keep that trade without tariffs? As Tusk writes, any sort of treaty with the UK shall have to maintain a balance of rights and a balance of obligations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    The vast majority just wish to control the flow.
    "Control the flow" means that they think that the UK has too many immigrants at the moment. Which makes them anti-immigration. It's rather simple.

    One may push that argument a bit further in saying that by seeking to "control the flow" from the EU they think there are too many Europeans in the UK - and exclusively that, unlike the majority of immigrants in the UK coming from the former Imperial domain. Which makes them racists.

  12. #957
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Ah, but the real question is - what are you willing to give up to keep that trade without tariffs? As Tusk writes, any sort of treaty with the UK shall have to maintain a balance of rights and a balance of obligations.


    "Control the flow" means that they think that the UK has too many immigrants at the moment. Which makes them anti-immigration. It's rather simple.

    One may push that argument a bit further in saying that by seeking to "control the flow" from the EU they think there are too many Europeans in the UK - and exclusively that, unlike the majority of immigrants in the UK coming from the former Imperial domain. Which makes them racists.
    So in order for the EU to maintain a trade advantage over the UK the UK must give something up?..Thats not even remotely logical.
    'Control the flow' means we the UK decide what qouta and type of immigration we want....not just from the EU but the rest of the world as well. To turn the tap off would be insane. The NHS would collapse without Indian doctors...and I wouldnt have been able to get my nephew a job without a friend from Napoli....

  13. #958
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    I never had a problem with Polish people in the UK but that is hardly surprising as I am from a Polish family. I did have a problem with Muslims and coloured people making "no go" zones of their own, where it was unsafe to walk at night - and yes this does happen. I remember staying overnight with a friend (she was a pinko) in just next to the old West Ham ground; I had some business in central London the next day so got up early, put on my suit etc and walked down the road toward the tube station and some eight or nine yr old coloured kid saw me and spat at me. That is unacceptable behaviour in my book. Doubtless if I had complained to the parents they would have done the same. Nor, while I have every respect for the faiths of others, do I want a Mosque next door to me. When I have been in Muslim countries I have had no problem praying in their Mosques alongside them; there is only one God and I can accept that Mohamed was their Prophet. Why can they do not the same? When in Rome do as the Romans and when in Europe behave in a civilised manner and worship as a Christian. If that makes me 'racist' so be it but in my view it is mere politeness to your hosts.

    But I do not think the decision to leave the EU is anything to do with my form of 'impolite people prejudice'. It is a myth of "how it used to"... some forsaken 'Golden Age' that never existed. You want kids working in mines again? Sure it might help the trade imbalance if we organise "work camps" where we can proclaim that children, criminals, unemployed etc etc "learn a trade" in return for food. But slave labour is inefficient; they do not pay taxes. The answer to trade deficit is to make better things than others, not close yourself off. It's like Trumpkin and his steel tarrifs; madness and totally contrary to all the long tradition of British advocacy of free trade. You fought Napoleon for that! Be more efficient and do it better is the answer but it is easier to blame migrants - which the 'English' themselves once were.

  14. #959
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    The flaming and name-calling in this thread needs to stop right now please.

    Debate the issue, don't insult the person.
    Oh ok and Snapper the witch and her apprentice bitch will be burnt forthwitch ?

  15. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Oh ok and Snapper the witch and her apprentice bitch will be burnt forthwitch ?
    No, they won't be.


    This thread is temporarily locked. It will be reopened in a few days.
    Last edited by TopHatter; 09 Mar 18, at 00:11.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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