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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #916
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    3.6 million UK jobs are linked with exports to the EU, 5.8 million EU jobs (excluding the UK) are linked with EU exports to the UK.

  2. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    The four Visegrad countries produced about 3,570,000 cars themselves in 2017, about twice as many as the UK.

    Of these:
    - 24.8% / 886,000 were from German manufacturers (573,000 Volkswagen, 190,000 Mercedes, 123,000 Audi)
    - 21.4% / 765,000 were from Slovakian manufacturers (Skoda)
    - 19.6% / 698,000 were from South Korean manufacturers (358,000 Hyundai, 340,000 Kia)
    - 12.1% / 431,000 were from Japanese manufacturers (220,000 Toyota, 211,000 Suzuki)
    - 8.8% / 315,000 were from French manufacturers (Peugeot)
    - 7.8% / 274,000 were from Italian manufacturers (Fiat)
    - 5.6% / 201,000 were from US manufacturers (General Motors)

    Their parts industry mostly feeds assembly plants for just-in-time production in Germany, which produces as much as the Visegrad countries and the UK taken together.
    Skoda is owned by Volkswagen

    and do GM even have a presence in the EU as they just sold Opel/Vauxhall to Peugeot

    Good info thanks and clearly shows how the EU is manipulating low wages in the Eastern states.....and good for them alas not so good for the Spanish and Italians or the UK.
    Last edited by Toby; 12 Feb 18, at 18:48.

  3. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    and do GM even have a presence in the EU as they just sold Opel/Vauxhall to Peugeot
    And they cited Brexit as part of their reasoning for doing so...

  4. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    And they cited Brexit as part of their reasoning for doing so...
    lol..yeh ok....So GM sold Opel because of Brexit??? RAOFLAO

  5. #920
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    My real problem with the current British Government's attitude and inconsistency is that the OBR - who's the Chancellor is by law obliged to act upon - outlines lower British GDP in any leave scenario than if the UK remained within the European Union. Yet Ministers still talk of a "brighter future" in the same as they promised an extra £350m per week for the NHS. IF you accept the OBR forecasts you are forced to acknowledge that the British people were either mislead or purposefully lied to during the referendum. How then you can defend not giving them a second vote on any 'deal' becomes a real problem. Is one vote enough forever even when the people were mislead/lied to? Clearly not - or perhaps all future local and General Elections should also not be permitted to change the Brexit vote in which people were now so clearly mislead or lied to.

  6. #921
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    Wait.

    You seem to be thinking there that the current situation of the UK exiting the EU can be reversed if the British populace decides so (or rather: if it sways the British government in that direction with another non-binding referendum like the one that brought the current situation about).

    Article 50 is pretty clear on that. It is not possible to stop the exiting process once it has been started. The UK can at some point in the future if it decides to apply to rejoin the Union. However, it will then have to conform to all prerequisites and conditions as any other hopeful applicant. Which means that the UK won't get any of the opt-outs it has enjoyed for the last 45 years. Mandatory Schengen, mandatory Euro.

  7. #922
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    Article does not mention an event in a member withdraws it's intention to leave the Union during the negotiation process. Besides that the Polish President of the Union specifically said that Britain could change it's mind. But honestly this is just more of your 'bad European' attitude that if it is not curbed in the greater process leads to bad things for all Europeans. You have an almost exact "little Germany" attitude that is a replica of the "little Britain" view of the hardline Brexiteers - you feed each other with BS.

  8. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Wait.

    You seem to be thinking there that the current situation of the UK exiting the EU can be reversed if the British populace decides so (or rather: if it sways the British government in that direction with another non-binding referendum like the one that brought the current situation about).

    Article 50 is pretty clear on that. It is not possible to stop the exiting process once it has been started. The UK can at some point in the future if it decides to apply to rejoin the Union. However, it will then have to conform to all prerequisites and conditions as any other hopeful applicant. Which means that the UK won't get any of the opt-outs it has enjoyed for the last 45 years. Mandatory Schengen, mandatory Euro.
    Funny the author of Article 50 seems to think its completely reveresable. Plus Donald Tusk and others have made it abundantly clear that the UK can change its mind.
    After March 2019 its a different story, but until then theres a very good chance we can revoke it. I really can't see the EU27 forceing a country out that expresses a wish to stay.

  9. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Funny the author of Article 50 seems to think its completely reveresable. Plus Donald Tusk and others have made it abundantly clear that the UK can change its mind.
    After March 2019 its a different story, but until then theres a very good chance we can revoke it. I really can't see the EU27 forceing a country out that expresses a wish to stay.
    I thought I might get an intelligent series of view points on here ...but instead all I've heard is mind numbing trivia..and thats on all subjects so far,,,just blatant shit!

  10. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I thought I might get an intelligent series of view points on here ...but instead all I've heard is mind numbing trivia..and thats on all subjects so far,,,just blatant shit!
    Coming from someone who's normal banal comments mean nothing other "I don't like it!" and never addressing the issues - the above being just another example - there is a good deal of irony in your accusing others of the banality which you so often resort to.

    Do you think the UK Governments economic Brexit forecasts are wrong?
    If not do you accept that the Brexit campaign mislead/lied to the British public?
    If so on what grounds should there not be a second referendum?
    Or perhaps you agree with kato that once Article 50 is invoked it is impossible to go back - you are destined to leave once you have invoked Article 50 - a one way train?
    In what way do you feel we are mistaken or talking "blatant sh*t" or being 'unintelligent' or is so just because you say it is?

    Have you a view on any of these subjects? It is seems not since all you do is spout vacuous comments regretting the lack of intelligence in the conversation of others. You could have commented on any or all of the subjects - no criticising the discussion of others without addressing or adding to the discussion was easier. Accuse others of that of which you are guilty is an old trick but when you so evidently demonstrate a vacuous banality when criticising others of that of which you demonstrate in voicing criticism of others it is almost worthy of a special "waste of space" award.
    Last edited by snapper; 15 Feb 18, at 07:28.

  11. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Coming from someone who's normal banal comments mean nothing other "I don't like it!" and never addressing the issues - the above being just another example - there is a good deal of irony in your accusing others of the banality which you so often resort to.

    Do you think the UK Governments economic Brexit forecasts are wrong?
    If not do you accept that the Brexit campaign mislead/lied to the British public?
    If so on what grounds should there not be a second referendum?
    Or perhaps you agree with kato that once Article 50 is invoked it is impossible to go back - you are destined to leave once you have invoked Article 50 - a one way train?
    In what way do you feel we are mistaken or talking "blatant sh*t" or being 'unintelligent' or is so just because you say it is?

    Have you a view on any of these subjects? It is seems not since all you do is spout vacuous comments regretting the lack of intelligence in the conversation of others. You could have commented on any or all of the subjects - no criticising the discussion of others without addressing or adding to the discussion was easier. Accuse others of that of which you are guilty is an old trick but when you so evidently demonstrate a vacuous banality when criticising others of that of which you demonstrate in voicing criticism of others it is almost worthy of a special "waste of space" award.
    Your MO appears to be to put down all opinion that doesn't fall into line with your own. I've corrected countless inaccuracies From Zara and others including yourself. Did you notice that? As you certainly didn't acknowledge it.
    Last edited by Toby; 16 Feb 18, at 22:23.

  12. #927
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    I would not call voicing my disagreement when I do not agree with something an 'MO' - you are unlikely to voice disagreement with things you agree with so disagreeing with that which you not agree seems the only way to go. I have never had a problem stating my view without particular care of what others - even those above me - may think. I welcome others who do the same as well and though I might criticise the reasoning behind their views - if they think it is the best course of action fine - they are free to their view as am I to mine. Sometimes others are right as well - they have a better idea or insight than you so I am well aware that without others being free to state their view things can go wrong in an organisation. I basically can't stop anyone thinking one way or the other anyway if they chose to ignore the facts. Believe in unicorns if you will. I have had long and sometimes bitter disagreements with colleagues from the UK to Ukraine - as well as on this forum. They have one view and I another.

    What I object to and was critising you on is what you might call "sniping". No contribution - you implicitly insulting others. When others are discussing the future of the UK to comment in effect "You lot are stupid" is graffiti almost. I am well aware some make whole careers 'sniping' and complaining about everything - I have met much worse than you - but the point is to solve problems - not go around blaming whoever for the problem or merely comment a proposed solution would not work or would cause further problems that outweigh any short term gain but you have to give your reasons if you want intelligent people to consider you seriously. A "You're all stupid" on a conversation without any reason or alternate view is meaningless towards solving any problem and frankly demeaning to the person who makes it. If I disagree or think a view or conversation was not "intelligent" I would give my reasons for that thinking so. I have now regarding your comment.

  13. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I would not call voicing my disagreement when I do not agree with something an 'MO' - you are unlikely to voice disagreement with things you agree with so disagreeing with that which you not agree seems the only way to go. I have never had a problem stating my view without particular care of what others - even those above me - may think. I welcome others who do the same as well and though I might criticise the reasoning behind their views - if they think it is the best course of action fine - they are free to their view as am I to mine. Sometimes others are right as well - they have a better idea or insight than you so I am well aware that without others being free to state their view things can go wrong in an organisation. I basically can't stop anyone thinking one way or the other anyway if they chose to ignore the facts. Believe in unicorns if you will. I have had long and sometimes bitter disagreements with colleagues from the UK to Ukraine - as well as on this forum. They have one view and I another.

    What I object to and was critising you on is what you might call "sniping". No contribution - you implicitly insulting others. When others are discussing the future of the UK to comment in effect "You lot are stupid" is graffiti almost. I am well aware some make whole careers 'sniping' and complaining about everything - I have met much worse than you - but the point is to solve problems - not go around blaming whoever for the problem or merely comment a proposed solution would not work or would cause further problems that outweigh any short term gain but you have to give your reasons if you want intelligent people to consider you seriously. A "You're all stupid" on a conversation without any reason or alternate view is meaningless towards solving any problem and frankly demeaning to the person who makes it. If I disagree or think a view or conversation was not "intelligent" I would give my reasons for that thinking so. I have now regarding your comment.
    I think you'll find that when I've made an error I admit to it unlike you and others who continue to prevaricate. You and your very obvious other characters that share the same obnoxious characteristics are fooling nobody, least of all IPASS that analyse your movements.... Bonjour!

  14. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I think you'll find that when I've made an error I admit to it unlike you and others who continue to prevaricate. You and your very obvious other characters that share the same obnoxious characteristics are fooling nobody, least of all IPASS that analyse your movements.... Bonjour!
    That is some impressive swivelling!

  15. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I think you'll find that when I've made an error I admit to it unlike you and others who continue to prevaricate. You and your very obvious other characters that share the same obnoxious characteristics are fooling nobody, least of all IPASS that analyse your movements.... Bonjour!
    I am delighted to hear this.

    Does this mean you will now do us the honour of addressing the point? Do you dispute the British Governments own forecasts that UK GDP will be lower out of Europe rather than if the UK had remained in the EU? If so on what grounds? Do you think a decrease in UK GDP (compared to if the UK remained in the EU) will make it easier for any future British Government to spend another £350m per week on the NHS (or say on defence or scientific research)? If not were the British people misled during the referendum? If they were on what grounds do you think it possible to deny 'the people' another referendum?

    I am not entirely sure what you mean by 'other characters' - perhaps you think I am 'zara' as well but I have no knowledge of Ireland - met some Paddy's occasionally but never been there. Only been to Manchester twice in my life. My criticism of your method of 'argument' (if you wish to term it such) is merely that it is not an argument. It is 'sniping'; instead of answering the point you chose merely to comment on the 'unintelligent' conversation when they at least are on topic and trying to be civil. I merely urge that answer the points that others make rather than criticise others for unrelated theories of your own - 'sniping' as it may be called. If you have nothing to contribute about a topic fine - I know nothing of Indian affairs - stay out instead of just insulting others who are discussing the subject. My best wishes to you. Au revoir.

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