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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosspoons View Post
    England needs to just rip the bandage off and Brexit. It will be painful, but Trump will squarely side with them over the EU which will put England in a better position to get more favorable deals with the rest of the continent. If they wait until the democrats are back in power, it will be much more difficult as they will be playing both sides.
    Ha! Trump doesnt have the attention span to do a trade deal with us. Even if he did its not going to happen. His America first policy would entail a very lopsided deal for the UK, the 'special relationship' isn't going to protect us from Washington lobby hawks, especially as we are desparate and near booming America is not.

    The two biggest interests the US have in our islands is pharma and argriculture. The British will never allow the NHS to be dismembered by US companies, any government that could be accused of contemplating that would be destroyed electorally. This is one of the major reasons TTIP failed.

    And as for Agriculture, well our government just agreed not to do anything that would create a hard border in Ireland. That means EU custom unions rules, therefore no deal on agriculture.

    There won't be a US-UK trade deal. no chance.

  2. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Which is why the EU loves Corporations. They're big and easy to regulate as they have money and resources to comply to the latest absurd political trend. Smaller business's similarly have to comply to the raft of self perpetuating regs but obviously find it harder due to having tighter budgets and less staff. When you talk to people who have started business's from nothing in 70's and 80's and employ say anything from 30 -100 you hear the same comments. 'its no fun anymore' what they actually mean is they are over regulated and feel suffocated.
    So does the UK! I hear the average business tax for SME's in town centres is due to jump by an average of £3000 or something, wheras Amazon and others will pay less. (Thanks Tories)
    Your sounding more Corbyanite all the time

  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    So does the UK! I hear the average business tax for SME's in town centres is due to jump by an average of £3000 or something, wheras Amazon and others will pay less. (Thanks Tories)
    and Labour and anybody else pretending to care for the people they are supposedly representing
    Your sounding more Corbyanite all the time
    Why ? because I'm anti globalisation and anti corporate??? Get a grip!

  4. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Theres no way i'd do that for a living, if its a choice of benefits or that job id take benefits, anyone from the UK or Ireland would.
    I wouldn't I'd do the job because I have self respect..and nobody is paying my way.. The state can F-ck off!

  5. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I wouldn't I'd do the job because I have self respect..and nobody is paying my way.. The state can F-ck off!
    You only say that because you have other options. You wouldn't do back breaking long boring labour for peanuts when you can earn more off the state, don't fool yourself.

  6. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    and Labour and anybody else pretending to care for the people they are supposedly representing
    Why ? because I'm anti globalisation and anti corporate??? Get a grip!
    Globalisation can't be stopped.. its been going on since the species first crawled out of the ocean.
    You think Trump and Brexit will stop it? You are pissing in the wind my friend, all we can do is adapt.

  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    If your beef is freedom of movement, then sure Brexit will reduce immigration (a bit), at at medium to heavy economic cost depending how far we diverge. .
    I have NO beef with freedom of movement. My beef is that there is no control and no help to restructure a countries infrastructure..The EU basically are saying "these are the rules, tough shit if your infrastructure can't cope" they are worse than useless!

  8. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Globalisation can't be stopped.. its been going on since the species first crawled out of the ocean.
    Spoken like a true disciple
    You think Trump and Brexit will stop it? You are pissing in the wind my friend, all we can do is adapt
    NO I don't. I just think its healthy to think outside the box and dream of a better world than the world we currently reside in. Because if you think this is a good direction well...hay ho I don't

  9. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    You only say that because you have other options. You wouldn't do back breaking long boring labour for peanuts when you can earn more off the state, don't fool yourself.
    Work is work there are no options when you are not an academic.
    I already do back breaking work..more so now than in my 20's.....I'll do what pays because my mindset is to pay bills and survive where as apparently yours is to cop out and have somebody else pay for you??

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Spoken like a true disciple
    NO I don't. I just think its healthy to think outside the box and dream of a better world than the world we currently reside in. Because if you think this is a good direction well...hay ho I don't
    You're not thinking outside the box, you screaming at the world and saying 'STOP'. Your not advancing any solutions to any problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    NO I don't. I just think its healthy to think outside the box and dream of a better world than the world we currently reside in. Because if you think this is a good direction well...hay ho I don't
    I genuinely don't. I think the only solution to the UKs problems is education. We can't wall ourselves off from the modern world we have to engage with it. and compete with it. The best vessel we have for that is through the EU. It's imperfect and incomplete, but we are not a resource rich nation like norway, nor a giant like the US or China, all we can offer the world is skills. Germany can do it.. why not us?

  11. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Work is work there are no options when you are not an academic.
    I already do back breaking work..more so now than in my 20's.....I'll do what pays because my mindset is to pay bills and survive where as apparently yours is to cop out and have somebody else pay for you??
    You assume a lot about me. I work, I've always worked. I wracked up an enormous debt to get an education which I have been paying off for 15 years, and still have a few to go.
    And I wasn't born 'with a silver spoon in my mouth'. (Other than the fantastic luck to be born in western Europe)
    Last edited by zara; 02 Feb 18, at 22:12.

  12. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    You're not thinking outside the box, you screaming at the world and saying 'STOP'. Your not advancing any solutions to any problems.
    and the EU or our so called leadership are?????lol yeh ok... RAOFLAO!

    I genuinely don't. I think the only solution to the UKs problems is education.
    Correct but unfortunately not everybody is an academic and never will be and unfortunately vocational skills are either frowned upon or dismissed as crap jobs by society. By the way I'm quite happy in my crap job fixing societies shit..because they can't apparently, because its too hard or they just can't be bothered ..they're a gang of lazy bastards that have had it too soft is the truth!

    We can't wall ourselves off from the modern world we have to engage with it. and compete with it.
    When do you start flower?.

    The best vessel we have for that is through the EU. It's imperfect and incomplete,
    and incapable of reform via a democratic mandate

    but we are not a resource rich nation like norway, nor a giant like the US or China, all we can offer the world is skills. Germany can do it.. why not us?
    We've always been small ...a small island with big ideas.....

  13. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    You assume a lot about me. I work, I've always worked. I wracked up an enormous debt to get an education which I have been paying off for 15 years, and still have a few to go.
    And I wasn't born 'with a silver spoon in my mouth'. (Other than the fantastic luck to be born in western Europe)
    I don't assume anything. I listen and respond to your comments only. I hear you on the debt thing...it stinks I agree!

  14. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    and the EU or our so called leadership are?????lol yeh ok... RAOFLAO!
    Macron is. Or at least he's trying to. We'll see in a few years how he does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Correct but unfortunately not everybody is an academic and never will be and unfortunately vocational skills are either frowned upon or dismissed as crap jobs by society. By the way I'm quite happy in my crap job fixing societies shit..because they can't apparently, because its too hard or they just can't be bothered ..they're a gang of lazy bastards that have had it too soft is the truth!
    Can you clarify on what you mean by an 'academic'? Do you mean someone with a degree, or someone who has spent their entire proffessional career in the academic sector?
    in my personal working experience most people who have done well for themselves have found an an alternative route to success. Theres a hard limit on what teachers and nurses can earn.


    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    and incapable of reform via a democratic mandate
    Do you understand that in order to to introduce direct democracy in the EU, it would have to federalize? If you give the commission a direct democratic mandate that absolutely neuters the power of the European Council? The British Commissioner would become as powerful, if not more powerful than the British PM. The British PM has to be able to choose and fire the British commissioner. As someone who proclaims to care about national soveirgenty, surely thats the last thing you want?


    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    We've always been small ...a small island with big ideas.....
    big ideas and big gunboats. It was easy to manufacture everything here when China was a sado-masocistic Communist swamp.
    Times have changed, and we need to change too.

    I know your disgust at the EU comes from a good place and you want to see better things for the average Brit, I just think its mis-directed rage. Brexit hurts us all.

  15. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Ha! Trump doesnt have the attention span to do a trade deal with us. Even if he did its not going to happen. His America first policy would entail a very lopsided deal for the UK, the 'special relationship' isn't going to protect us from Washington lobby hawks, especially as we are desparate and near booming America is not.

    The two biggest interests the US have in our islands is pharma and argriculture. The British will never allow the NHS to be dismembered by US companies, any government that could be accused of contemplating that would be destroyed electorally. This is one of the major reasons TTIP failed.

    And as for Agriculture, well our government just agreed not to do anything that would create a hard border in Ireland. That means EU custom unions rules, therefore no deal on agriculture.

    There won't be a US-UK trade deal. no chance.
    Then languish as a step-child to the EU. Doesn't bother me one bit. If you consider 1.5% growth acceptable, then you are clearly on the right path.

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