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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #811
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    It’s that time of the year again; the leaves are falling from the trees, bonfire wood is soon to be gathered, and the annual pantomime where the European Union takes collective leave of its senses and gives us a rare moment of frankness and honesty. I refer, of course, to the Court of Auditors report – which, for the 22nd year in a row, has issued an ‘adverse opinion on the regularity and legality of the payments’ underlying the EU accounts. An adverse opinion is rare in accountancy, and is issued only in serious cases where there has been a substantial departure from generally accepted accounting principles. British euro-apologist politicians love to find new and inventive ways of denying that this means the EU’s accounts haven’t been signed off.

    The European Union has tried many things: it’s tried to explain this anomaly away. It’s tried making excuses, it’s tried blaming the member states for making the mistakes (Seriously? They think all 28 countries in the EU simultaneously all make the same mistakes, as do various countries across the world in receipt of EU funds, but it’s never the Commission’s fault?), and it’s recently tried appointing people with horribly federalist pro-EU views to the Court of Auditors. It hasn’t worked; the Auditors still embarrass the European Union on an annual basis.

    In the 320-page report, the Court of Auditors blasted various examples of EU waste and mismanagement. But the Court of Auditor’s findings only told a small part of the true scale of EU wastefulness, because only a small sample of all expenditure is scrutinised by the Court. There are undoubtedly many similar examples which will simply never be found.

    The error rate is 3.8%, almost double the 2% threshold which is the maximum considered acceptable by the Court of Auditors, affecting a whopping €5.4 billion of EU spending.

    There are various examples of waste which are utterly bizarre. A €4,000 mountain bike, a €10,000 donation to a local church and a €3,500 panoramic spyglass were claimed for in Italy as part of an €80,000 spending spree on unnecessary items for a project A youth club in Azerbaijan was given €16,500 but the Court of Auditors was unable to actually trace the youth club, leading to fears that the money had disappeared altogether. A €250,000 euro grant for cloud computing services was used to pay staff for hours they didn’t work, and give them bonuses that they weren’t entitled to. In Italy nearly €100,000 was awarded for building dry stone walls which the Court says had no link to any EU objectives

  2. #812
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Sigh... more euro-myths perpetuated by Express headlines..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36276175
    I dont read the express....why would I do that when the EU release a report every year?....As the article above points out only a fraction of the accounts are scrutinised and they can't even get them to add up. The situation is so laughable that 2017 is the first year ever that the accounts have shown less than a 2% error.....but alas thats still approx €5 billion that cant be accounted for.....
    Last edited by Toby; 01 Dec 17, at 11:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Did I bother? I bother everyday. But somethings are more important than numbers on a spreadsheet. Money isn't my god.
    This is not a theological debate. It is about what is best for the British people, how my those younger than I can afford to pay their University fees, buy a house and feed their children - how two working parents can afford to pay off their mortgage and educate their children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Wage growth has been stagnant for decades in much of the economy. In part due to foreign workers, but also due to the banking collapse in recent years. Personally my wages have gone up. But yeh the cost of groceries for example has increased considerably since we joined the EU (CAP price intervention)
    Have your wages/salary risen more than inflation? That is the point. If not then like most other Brits you are worse off. Remember just after the referendum the £ nosedived against the € and everyone said "So what? Currencies go up and down" - when does the £ start rising again? It actually rose on the reports that a deal was possible on the 'leaving fee'. That is the main reason you have 3% inflation so interest rates have to start rising - far too late in my view. But how do people who are barely able to survive with a shrinking real income afford their mortgages when interest rates get back to 4-5%? They will vote for Commie Corbyn who thinks money for everyone is real policy. The deficit and debt will skyrocket until the UK cannot afford to borrow any more - as it is refinancing the debt you have costs as much yearly as the Defence budget. That is the way you are heading and it should concern you. And no the wage growth problem is next to nothing to do with Polish or Romanian workers; it is about productivity as the Chancellor admitted in the Budget and the OBR confirmed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Will anybody notice ...lol
    When they start losing their homes - because the property bubble will burst and they will be sitting on 'negative equity' and can't feed their kids without 'food banks' although they work all the hours God gives them... Would you notice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Compared to the EU it would be a walk in the park
    Bankruptcy is no walk in the park. Ask the Greeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Yes dear! More project 'FEAR' thats what we need, Somebody put the kettle on ...the drama is really starting to pinch (NOT)
    You are so consumed by the lies of your 'religion' (because for you it seems Brexit is almost a matter of faith - certainly the facts do not support your misguided optimism) conspiracy theories that you are unable to take an objective view of the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Did I? more a case of being fed up of propping up failed economies that are high on EU subsidies. I don't want my money to build a motorway in Spain or Poland. I want my money spent here.
    To be able to spend money you have to earn it and not spend more than you earn. Good luck with that when Corbyn bankrupts you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    All politicians lie, What makes you think people believe them??
    Only the Brexiteers honestly believe those who lied to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Really? well what goes around, comes around! When you go through life not listening and pleasing yourself. Due to a false sense of self importance things eventually catch up with you. Which is why the EU will eventually implode.
    Might be wise to address the problems the UK is facing rather repeating slogans of your faith and calling them 'answers'. Honestly it's as if I asked Corbyn how he proposes to pay for all his extravagant proposals and he and his pals burst into "We'll keep the Red flag flying here" - which is pretty much what they do. But sometime someone has to actually deal with the problems and the longer you leave it the harder that will be.

    Look the whole Brexit premise is that eventually the UK may end up better off when it is free to make it's own trade deals. I do not deny that this is a possibility - though not a certainty. But suppose you spend 20yrs being bankrupt thanks to the Islington Comrades, they will lose the independent nuclear deterrent and then (as they have already said) start 'confiscating' private property - peoples houses - for the 'good of the people'? Well then it will almost a generation to repair that damage before the possible but not certain 'benefits' of Brexit are even a maybe. In the meantime Britain is back to being 'sick man of Europe' and the Frogs and Krauts make the rules in Europe making it increasingly unlikely that any 'net benefit' will ever be realised. £350m more per week for the NHS from EU 'savings'; sorry my friend but it's never going to happen. Those who told you so knew it but lied. They want the UK to be an offshore money laundering operation - lowest taxes, low wages, giant city bonuses and brown envelopes to offshore bank accounts. Now I apologise but to me that is just wrong; responsible Government is about enabling everyone to look after themselves and their families more - to be able buy a house and feed their children, go on holiday, buy a new car. Only that way in the long term does an economy grow - make the consumer better off and give them more choices and demand goes up and tax income goes up so you can invest in more and better infrastucture from the NHS to new roads and trains etc... Government for the benefit of brown envelopes is oligarchy and in the end that does grow the economy. Only enabling the majority does.

    The fact remains that British people were lied to in the referendum - you know it as do I. When did Farage ever mention a £50b 'leaving fee'? Why did they lie? Why were there 45,000 'tweets' by Muscovite bots and inumerable fb lies posted and repeated by Muscovite trolls and bots in the 24hrs before the referendum? You got sold a dud with innumerable risks based on premise of an almost impossible better future. Britain loses 99 times out of 100 and others will make the rules of the new game until you deal with the upcoming problems - if ever. Misguided 'faith' and resorting to slogan conspiracy theories does not deal with real issues like people paying their mortgages and putting food on the table. Time you Brexiteers faced the hard facts that you got sold a 'walk in the park' and are going to robbed if not raped in the park. A new vote on any Brexit final deal is entirely right. I saw an opinion poll today that said 50% of people want a vote on the final deal and 34% reject it. I think it is damn clear a vote is the only way to decide the issue - and fine let's make it 60% to win instead of 2%.

  4. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    This is not a theological debate. It is about what is best for the British people, how my those younger than I can afford to pay their University fees, buy a house and feed their children - how two working parents can afford to pay off their mortgage and educate their children.
    No it's not, but it is highly theoretical a bit like the EU, a great idea that has floundered due to intransigence and total arrogance.

    Have your wages/salary risen more than inflation? That is the point.If not then like most other Brits you are worse off.
    I've already answered that....I'm self employed. I decide how much my wages are because I decide how much work I am prepared to do. Some people are busy all day and don't make any money, but they get paid regardless. These people tend to work for the Public sector. Some people work a few hours and make alot of money..These people tend to be in the private sector.

    Remember just after the referendum the £ nosedived against the € and everyone said "So what? Currencies go up and down" - when does the £ start rising again?
    When politicians eventually pull their heads out of their arses and stop dragging things out. A deal will be done and business and investment will have a clear road map. At the moment we don't have that because the whole thing is floundering around due to collective fear projected by people with no bottle

    It actually rose on the reports that a deal was possible on the 'leaving fee'. That is the main reason you have 3% inflation so interest rates have to start rising - far too late in my view. But how do people who are barely able to survive with a shrinking real income afford their mortgages when interest rates get back to 4-5%?
    Interest rates are set to increase a little over 2% and then drop again (according to Mark Carney)

    They will vote for Commie Corbyn who thinks money for everyone is real policy. The deficit and debt will skyrocket until the UK cannot afford to borrow any more - as it is refinancing the debt you have costs as much yearly as the Defence budget. That is the way you are heading and it should concern you. And no the wage growth problem is next to nothing to do with Polish or Romanian workers; it is about productivity as the Chancellor admitted in the Budget and the OBR confirmed.
    This country has not lunged to the hard left since the 70's...and isn't about to again any time soon. We're not France!


    When they start losing their homes - because the property bubble will burst and they will be sitting on 'negative equity' and can't feed their kids without 'food banks' although they work all the hours God gives them... Would you notice?
    Which is why interest rates will stay at the lower end and inflation will subside


    Bankruptcy is no walk in the park. Ask the Greeks.
    UK debt is structured completely different to Greek debt that isn't even a worthy comparison.



    You are so consumed by the lies of your 'religion' (because for you it seems Brexit is almost a matter of faith - certainly the facts do not support your misguided optimism) conspiracy theories that you are unable to take an objective view of the facts.
    Oh so now we're having a theological debate, make you mind up!!


    To be able to spend money you have to earn it and not spend more than you earn. Good luck with that when Corbyn bankrupts you.
    You also have to invest and to do that you have to borrow. Otherwise there is no future for anybody. Austerity on its own is a highway to nowhere!


    Only the Brexiteers honestly believe those who lied to them.
    You are still convinced that all this negativity towards the EU suddenly happened during referendum?


    Might be wise to address the problems the UK is facing rather repeating slogans of your faith and calling them 'answers'. Honestly it's as if I asked Corbyn how he proposes to pay for all his extravagant proposals and he and his pals burst into "We'll keep the Red flag flying here" - which is pretty much what they do. But sometime someone has to actually deal with the problems and the longer you leave it the harder that will be.

    Look the whole Brexit premise is that eventually the UK may end up better off when it is free to make it's own trade deals. I do not deny that this is a possibility - though not a certainty. But suppose you spend 20yrs being bankrupt thanks to the Islington Comrades, they will lose the independent nuclear deterrent and then (as they have already said) start 'confiscating' private property - peoples houses - for the 'good of the people'? Well then it will almost a generation to repair that damage before the possible but not certain 'benefits' of Brexit are even a maybe. In the meantime Britain is back to being 'sick man of Europe' and the Frogs and Krauts make the rules in Europe making it increasingly unlikely that any 'net benefit' will ever be realised. £350m more per week for the NHS from EU 'savings'; sorry my friend but it's never going to happen. Those who told you so knew it but lied. They want the UK to be an offshore money laundering operation - lowest taxes, low wages, giant city bonuses and brown envelopes to offshore bank accounts. Now I apologise but to me that is just wrong; responsible Government is about enabling everyone to look after themselves and their families more - to be able buy a house and feed their children, go on holiday, buy a new car. Only that way in the long term does an economy grow - make the consumer better off and give them more choices and demand goes up and tax income goes up so you can invest in more and better infrastucture from the NHS to new roads and trains etc... Government for the benefit of brown envelopes is oligarchy and in the end that does grow the economy. Only enabling the majority does.

    The fact remains that British people were lied to in the referendum - you know it as do I. When did Farage ever mention a £50b 'leaving fee'? Why did they lie? Why were there 45,000 'tweets' by Muscovite bots and inumerable fb lies posted and repeated by Muscovite trolls and bots in the 24hrs before the referendum? You got sold a dud with innumerable risks based on premise of an almost impossible better future. Britain loses 99 times out of 100 and others will make the rules of the new game until you deal with the upcoming problems - if ever. Misguided 'faith' and resorting to slogan conspiracy theories does not deal with real issues like people paying their mortgages and putting food on the table. Time you Brexiteers faced the hard facts that you got sold a 'walk in the park' and are going to robbed if not raped in the park. A new vote on any Brexit final deal is entirely right. I saw an opinion poll today that said 50% of people want a vote on the final deal and 34% reject it. I think it is damn clear a vote is the only way to decide the issue - and fine let's make it 60% to win instead of 2%
    This is the bit where you wandered off into your own universe. You seem to have the hots for Mr Corbyn for some bizarre reason and are convinced the whole referendum was steered by Russia. I have one word 'DUMB' !
    '

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Sigh... more euro-myths perpetuated by Express headlines..
    You might like this link: http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/...ths-a-z-index/

    Not that much Express though. Mostly Mail, Sun, some Times over the last 25 years...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    You might like this link: http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/...ths-a-z-index/

    Not that much Express though. Mostly Mail, Sun, some Times over the last 25 years...
    Switching accounts again...well done..and the answer is No NONE of them, they're all shit papers!!!!..Ridiculous! and I thought I was talking to people with real train of thought

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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    You might like this link: http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/...ths-a-z-index/

    Not that much Express though. Mostly Mail, Sun, some Times over the last 25 years...
    A good account of the poison that has infested British consciousness over the last few decades. And we all thought the Russians were good at fake news

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    So the deal agreed this morning sounds like the UK will stay in the SM and CU in the absence of a deal that delivers the same benefits visa-vis the Irish border..

    So unless cakeism pans out it sounds like were staying in the SM & CU, but just trying desperately hard not to say so.

    And for the privilege of nothing changing we are paying what we already owed, just in a lump sum.

    Sounds like the only change is that the UK will lose its commissioner, its MEP's and a seat on the council. What an absolute farce

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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    So the deal agreed this morning sounds like the UK will stay in the SM and CU in the absence of a deal that delivers the same benefits visa-vis the Irish border..
    Full deal agreed upon to proceed with negotiations:
    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/file...opean-union_en

    49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.
    50. In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland. In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.
    Last edited by kato; 08 Dec 17, at 14:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Full deal agreed upon to proceed with negotiations:
    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/file...opean-union_en
    This is fantastic news! The Brexit forums are in full blown meltdown...
    They are calling for the head of 'Theresa the appeaser'

    And thanks to the DUP! Never thought I'd be saying that!


    If you are a member of the CU & the SM but not the EU does that mean you participate in all the free trade deals negotiated by the EU with third countries? Or are you excluded?

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    Here's some analysis on that particular paragraph of the deal:
    https://www.ft.com/content/4fddeb2e-...7-9dfeb6055510

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    All this playing around with language is just delaying tactics...I would say from both sides. Especially from the EU. Which is about to announce concessions to EU countries concerning free movement. Clearly this will effect on the old Warsaw Pact countries the most. But enough is enough.

  13. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Here's some analysis on that particular paragraph of the deal:
    https://www.ft.com/content/4fddeb2e-...7-9dfeb6055510
    Isn't the FT owned by the Japanese???

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    On the first video, what is the problem with pooled sovereignty? We accept the pooling of England, Scotland, Wales and NI and rightfully see that a power amplifier... why is shareing sovereignty with European nations so awful?

    And if you want to protect low skilled and imobile labour then thats ok, but say so. You cant claim 'Global Britain' and Singapore upon Thames and at the same time claim your going to protect them, thats dishonest. Don't call the Customs union a 'protectionist racket' and then somehow pretend you have the interests of these people at heart.

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