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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Norway is paying an amount for that trade agreement to the EU that - by GDP share - is roughly equivalent to what the UK paid in membership fees. Without getting a say in anything.
    And the EU doesn't get to tell Norway what it's laws are.

  2. #212
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    Actually it does (from a pro-Brexit source).

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Actually it does (from a pro-Brexit source).
    I'm taking it then that because Norway is an EEA member that it is obliged to adopt certain EU laws? I doubt we would accept being an EEA member as it is just an EU light concept.

    That said it would be a mistake to say I or we are against all EU laws, because we are not.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Actually it does (from a pro-Brexit source).
    Throwing a source, saying it is against your views and claiming victory hoping noone understand what it says. And it says that sometime Norway adopts some of EU regulations (some 25% of EU laws apply in Norway).

    You also make it sound like someone says that ALL European laws are bad. What's bad is that unellected body sends directives on what to do and what you may or may not do. More often than not, it has nothing to do with the economy.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Throwing a source, saying it is against your views and claiming victory hoping noone understand what it says. And it says that sometime Norway adopts some of EU regulations (some 25% of EU laws apply in Norway).

    You also make it sound like someone says that ALL European laws are bad. What's bad is that unellected body sends directives on what to do and what you may or may not do. More often than not, it has nothing to do with the economy.
    If I had said any of that, these EU stooges would have said it was more evidence that I was biased and badly informed etc....

  6. #216
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    We're not leaving NATO, we are leaving the EU. How CLEAR would you like it?
    We haven't said we want the same deal as a member. Don't know where you're getting that from.
    I never said you were quitting NATO. Just pointing out that the people didn't vote on joining that either.

    But yes all I have read is that you Brexit people are surprised that, life/trade/... cannot be business as usual with the EU even though you are leaving. That Europe is ungrateful and not playing like you wanted/expected them to.



    By the way I was trying to make you aware that we were conned in 1975....I guess that bit didn't resonate.
    Don't care what happened in 75. This is 42 years later. Its like asking for a divorce this year because my wife of 42 years wasn't a virgin when we got married. "She conned me" A judge would tll me that the time to make that argument has long passed.

    As for the threat of "How many cars do the Germans want to sell you?" The question should be "How many vehicles does the UK want to sell to europe?" Last year the UK produced 1.72m car and exported 1.35m of them. More than half of those cars went to the EU. The Germans would be more than happy to take a chunk of those EU sales

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...s-uncertainty/
    Human Scum. Proud Never Trumper

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I doubt we would accept being an EEA member as it is just an EU light concept.
    The less integrated the more the UK'll need to kowtow (and pay) for the trade deal it wants...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    What's bad is that unellected body sends directives on what to do and what you may or may not do.
    Calling the council unelected is like saying a parliament is undemocratic. Its members are elected by the electorate of their individual countries.

  8. #218
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    The less integrated the more the UK'll need to kowtow (and pay) for the trade deal it wants...


    Calling the council unelected is like saying a parliament is undemocratic. Its members are elected by the electorate of their individual countries.
    Please remind me when did Junker rally asking for support for his candidacy in front of people of Germany, France, Spain... to gain support and we might be onto something.
    Last edited by Doktor; 18 May 17, at 05:57.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

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  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    I never said you were quitting NATO. Just pointing out that the people didn't vote on joining that either.

    But yes all I have read is that you Brexit people are surprised that, life/trade/... cannot be business as usual with the EU even though you are leaving. That Europe is ungrateful and not playing like you wanted/expected them to.




    Don't care what happened in 75. This is 42 years later. Its like asking for a divorce this year because my wife of 42 years wasn't a virgin when we got married. "She conned me" A judge would tll me that the time to make that argument has long passed.

    As for the threat of "How many cars do the Germans want to sell you?" The question should be "How many vehicles does the UK want to sell to europe?" Last year the UK produced 1.72m car and exported 1.35m of them. More than half of those cars went to the EU. The Germans would be more than happy to take a chunk of those EU sales

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...s-uncertainty/
    UK sales for 2016 are just less than 3 million IIRC. But it is UK's fault, not EU. They had the base and missed the opportunity, thought it would be better to just outsource everything and do the books (finances) in the City. People outside London don't seem to like it very much.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    I never said you were quitting NATO. Just pointing out that the people didn't vote on joining that either.
    Of course they didn't. It was a bad comparison

    But yes all I have read is that you Brexit people are surprised that, life/trade/... cannot be business as usual with the EU even though you are leaving.
    We're leaving the EU not Europe. Why is it so hard to understand.

    That Europe is ungrateful and not playing like you wanted/expected them to.
    Its the EU that has received money from us, Not the other way around. It's the EU free loaders that are bitter, But I do understand. When an addict has a dependency its only natural that when that source comes to an end the addict becomes uncertain about the future and reacts badly.


    Don't care what happened in 75. This is 42 years later.
    If you don't care. How can you understand? You've displayed this lack of empathy before ( ). It hardly falls into line with your "I'm just trying to understand. From an outsiders PoV"

    Its like asking for a divorce this year because my wife of 42 years wasn't a virgin when we got married. "She conned me" A judge would tll me that the time to make that argument has long passed.
    I'd be more inclined to use the enslavement comparison than a marriage one. Like a prisoner finally being given the opportunity to leave the cell. Bravely overcoming a sense of institutionalisation and heading for the door and freedom.

    As for the threat of "How many cars do the Germans want to sell you?" The question should be "How many vehicles does the UK want to sell to europe?" Last year the UK produced 1.72m car and exported 1.35m of them. More than half of those cars went to the EU. The Germans would be more than happy to take a chunk of those EU sales

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...s-uncertainty/
    That argument is completely flawed! Germany alone exported 810,000 cars to the UK in 2016, add that to the French, Italian, Spanish car exports to the UK and lets see who has a deficit, Cuts both ways! I'd say that it would further help Jaguar landrover if German car sales were halted to the UK. The myth of German engineering would finally be exposed once more people realised how good British cars actually are. I'm getting quite excited at the prospect!

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    The less integrated the more the UK'll need to kowtow (and pay) for the trade deal it wants...
    Fences have Two sides

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    And if they're spikey they can be painful to try to sit on...

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    The Germans would be more than happy to take a chunk of those EU sales
    The Germans already have those EU sales. There are companies from four countries that produce the overwhelming majority of cars in the UK - as in 99%. Those companies are Nissan, Toyota and Honda from Japan, BMW and Opel (owning Vauxhall and GM Manufacturing Luton) from Germany and Tata Motors (owning Jaguar) from India. It's more about whether these would decide to scale production in the UK to the UK market while moving production for the EU to the continent. And if any kind of toll is installed they will do just that, taking anywhere between 150k and 250k jobs with them.

    The largest single actual British car-producing companies in Britain is McLaren. Which builds around 2,000 of those 1.72 million cars.
    Last edited by kato; 18 May 17, at 17:18.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    I'll answer it. Because Switzerland and Norway have those trade agreements. Heck even we can export to the EU without tariffs.
    But we are not just leaving the EU. We are leaving the single market, the customs union, Euratom and probably the council of Europe too.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    But yes all I have read is that you Brexit people are surprised that, life/trade/... cannot be business as usual with the EU even though you are leaving. That Europe is ungrateful and not playing like you wanted/expected them to.
    It's because the brexit leaders told fibs. They said our policy on cake was 'pro eating, and pro having'. They said Germany would give us everything we wanted because we buy a lot of German cars and Italien prosecco. They said we were champions of trade because we made 'innovative jam'. They labeled every warning of any consequence of leaving as 'Project fear'. They dressed the whole sorry thing up as a patriotic choice and told us that many millions of Turks would soon be decending on our Island if we stayed.

    Now they are trying to paint the EU's entirely predictable and rational response as 'punishment', and taking every opportunity to insult them.

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