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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1861
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    kato,

    You do realize that by any sane standards Jeremy Corbyn is not even remotely a Communist?
    yes, yes, I'm aware he's not a Leninist-Marxist (although Corbyn did say Marx was a "great economist").

    by American or even British standards, he certainly -is- hard left, so it's a good deal more accurate to call him a bloody Communist than the GOP calling Obama a Marxist, lol.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  2. #1862
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    You do realize that by any sane standards Jeremy Corbyn is not even remotely a Communist?
    He's a jihadi sympathizer

    It's funny how the left continues to do this given that the left ceased to exist in Pakistan some where in the early 70s.

    Pak orgin MP's pushing resolutions filled with blatantly false claims and zero fact checking does not inspire confidence that this man is fit for office.

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    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Jan 20, at 16:55.

  3. #1863
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    The genius that is the current UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab urged UK citizens not to visit Iran or any other Scandinavian countries. God save the Queen!

  4. #1864
    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    Well Scandinavia is a bit overpriced to be fair.

  5. #1865
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    I'm happy that the U.K. can finally get its manhood back. I think that when things return to almost normal this decision won't be as terrible to the E.U. as they make it out to be. Business will adapt like it always does. Some relocations aren't going to hurt London so much as it would hurt the businesses that are moving because they don't want to follow the rules.

  6. #1866
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    Hi everyone. I'm a refugee from Reddit's geopolitics board. Given the amount of activity on there after the Iran flare up, and the power-hungry mods going ban-crazy, I imagine a lot more refugees may turn up. Interesting captcha mechanism here, asking history questions. Maybe someone should check up on fixing the logo and switching to https as well.

    While I think Brexit is a geopolitical disaster for Britain, are there missed opportunities for all sides? I got into Peter Zeihan recently. I think he's a hack, but he does make you think a certain way. Makes you reconsider whether the UK should've allowed shale drilling. Wind, nuclear and reforestation are, IMO the ways the UK specifically can tackle climate change, not solar panels.

    Anyway, at one point, May wanted a proposal that was EU membership, minus freedom of movement. This got watered down to freedom of goods only, then to what we have now. Should the EU have kept the UK inside the tent peeing out, rather than outside the tent peeing in? I understand that they want to ravage the UK's corpse for any scraps of industry. The whole point of the single market is to keep things in-house, after all.

    But having a large, credit-fuelled economy on the inside gives Germany a place to dump their cars and other goods. I'm not subscribed to the "they need us more than we need them" Brexit mantra, but I'm not sure if the decreased access to the UK's market beats picking their supply chain clean and moving it to Europe.

    Zeihan, who again I think is a fantasy hack, said that the US would withdraw from world trade. It's certainly not reliant on trade outside of North America the way other countries are, as seen in the US-China trade war, and their overall export numbers. I see China spinning it as "switching from industry to services", but it is clear that they haven't achieved the self-reliance they so desperately crave. If what he says pans out, and Germany collapses, along with the rest of Europe apart from France, would it have been smarter to keep the UK in its orbit?

    I see 2 things happening after Brexit. Either the UK is trapped in the EU's orbit, and adopts their future regulations, despite having no say and preaching "independence". Or they're trapped in the US's orbit, used as their dumping ground for goods. Maybe it could join Nafta and make it the North-Atlantic FTA, but it won't have the same say as it did in the EU.

    If the UK becomes a satellite of the US (more than it is already), could it actually benefit from their protectionism? I thought the US was a relatively open market, so not much to be gained from a trade deal. But if Lighthizer is as dangerous as he's said to be, not only does he like to exploit countries trade-wise, but he picks and chooses which targets to mess with. So no trade deals with the EU or China. Current tariffs are here to stay.

    Yes the US will take advantage of the UK, but if it reorients its sectors towards that, it could be one of the viable countries of the future. Now I sincerely doubt any Prime Minister of the last 10 years has even considered anything geopolitics-related. Their only concerns are getting reelected.

    I remember listening to the radio once. One guy called in to say "they [Europe] need to give us something". I took that to mean he wanted a face-saving measure to call this a success. Yes, some may not be happy about a Brexit in name only, but if the EU had "given them something", such as current membership minus (or restricting) FoM, a 2nd referendum could, having defused migration, been a comfortable win.

    Now the Brexiteers who may have wavered before are hardened, wanting more than ever to go through with it, regardless of their knowledge of the EU before or after the 1st referendum. They believe the EU wanted to break them. But the British bulldog marches on. Like Iran, NK and China have shown, it takes more than economic pressure for a large economy to break a smaller one. There has to be some political pressure as well.

    I believe most of the Eastern bloc immigrants, the ones who Blair let in and, who it's no secret, tipped the voters in favour of Brexit, would stay in the UK as well. So no need to worry about them repositioning to Germany or France. Sure it looks bad, but it maintains the size of the EU, and one of its strongest members. There is a risk that, with their newfound power, the Brits can cause trouble on the inside, especially with voting rights. But there are already troublemakers with the Visegrad 4.

    So to summarise: assuming there's some truth to the doom and gloom forecasts that paint the US as the only country that will thrive in the 21st century, would it have been strategically sensible for (a) the EU to keep them "in the tent" (membership minus FoM) to shore up their markets, (b) the UK to tether themselves to the US and act like a 2nd Canada, or (c) the US empire to integrate its UK colony (how things have changed), despite losing their "man on the inside" of Europe?

    Apologies for the length. I'm not sure whether it's frowned upon, or if people like long, academic discussion here. Redditors might as well have an attention deficit, as large blocks of text are skimmed or ignored outright. Despite that, dunning-kruger is in full effect, and people like to listen to quippy one-liners and those who pull the confidence trick of sounding authoritative about things they may be wrong about, but the audience is none the wiser.

    A good example is none other than Reddit geopolitics, a forum for mostly teenagers (US and worldwide) to air their anti-American sentiment, while hawkish mods (you can see by their post history) fly through with banhammers after posting in their neocon and military subreddits, and taking themselves far too seriously because nobody else will.

    Speaking of confidence tricks, that's why I have a suspicion of Zeihan. A list of wrong predictions, probably the 1.3 billionth prediction of Chinese collapse by a US forecaster, and he makes it sound like all these countries with large labour and capital pools will just magically sink into the earth, and won't do anything to stop their decline. Or that emerging technologies will have no effect. Considering the shale industry sprung up from irrelevance 20 years ago to rivalling the Saudis today, I'm surprised he'd write anyone off. Whatever sells his new book, I guess.

  7. #1867
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    Welcome Chips. The right place for new members to introduce themselves is here; http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sho...55#post1060255 but perhaps our mods will overlook your mistake.

  8. #1868
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chips1 View Post
    Apologies for the length. I'm not sure whether it's frowned upon, or if people like long, academic discussion here. Redditors might as well have an attention deficit, as large blocks of text are skimmed or ignored outright. Despite that, dunning-kruger is in full effect, and people like to listen to quippy one-liners and those who pull the confidence trick of sounding authoritative about things they may be wrong about, but the audience is none the wiser.
    I never understand why people apologise for length !!

    If you took the trouble to type it and its coherent then there is nothing to apologise for.

    If you're in a place where such is frowned upon then you're in the wrong place.


    A good example is none other than Reddit geopolitics, a forum for mostly teenagers (US and worldwide) to air their anti-American sentiment, while hawkish mods (you can see by their post history) fly through with banhammers after posting in their neocon and military subreddits, and taking themselves far too seriously because nobody else will.
    Always thought reddit was pretty open minded. Some have said too open minded.

    If they were talking about Iraq in 2003 then neocon is the right lens to look at it

    I don't think its possible these days for foreigners to compete with the American opposition when it comes to 'anti-american' sentiment : D
    Last edited by Double Edge; 17 Jan 20, at 03:31.

  9. #1869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Always thought reddit was pretty open minded. Some have said too open minded.
    ... Reddit is largely considered a platform for alt-right, libertarian and neonazi scum by the mainstream.

  10. #1870
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    That was way too good.It's worth making it a signature or something like that.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  11. #1871
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    Welcome back Mihai

  12. #1872
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    That was way too good.It's worth making it a signature or something like that.
    quotable : )

  13. #1873
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    Some classic Brexit idiocies;


  14. #1874
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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  15. #1875
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    UK imposing sanctions on itself.

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