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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1831
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    Back when the UK Conservative and Unionist Party stood for free trade and the Union (of UK), balancing the budget and strong defence etc I was a true blue Conservative - it was not so long ago even. I had no problem voting for David Cameron in 2010. But they are no longer a Party I could possibly support - I have not changed but they have. Instead of having over 100 free trade deals via the EU they want none; they want to stop the free trade deal with Canada and Japan and others (Columbia even) which the UK benefits from via the EU deals to what? Sign another free trade deal with exactly those countries again in the belief that this makes more sovereign. It is lunacy. Instead of balancing the budget they are proposing to add another 1trillion to the debt (and in the UK a billion is not 1000 million but a million millions so add three zeros for a British billion). Debt to GDP is likely to rise to 120%, the point at which Hellas went bust and was persecuted and robbed blind by their creditors. There is not one single forecast that provides evidence that Brexit will be profitable for the UK. In the meantime the Scots will want independence and the Irish nationalists now outweigh the Irish Unionists in MPs. But this is the Conservative Party? No it is not. It is an English nationalist Party and no longer represents the former conservative agenda.

    Not much different from the GOP over the pond....

    Where did Boris go to celebrate - at a party thrown by a Muscovite oligarch who owns a London newspaper because well that is how 'patriots' roll now right?

  2. #1832
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    It is a shame we can not hear Tankies opinion in this thread.
    We can surmise. I reckon he'd be chuffed with the result. He'd be more chuffed if Boris actually pulls off what he promises to do. But the UK isn't quitting come Jan end, they will get another extension. This is where all will see whether things happen or not. Initial impressions are promising. Longer it takes more cynical tankie becomes.

    tankie would be happy to see the Lib Dems got a good stuffing. A party that pretends that the opinion of 17 million Brits does not matter is unacceptable. Ignoring what a quarter of the country thinks is how democracy dies, not in darkness but eyes wide open in broad day light.

    Which then begs the question why the LibDems took such a stance. Maybe its what they thought people wanted. Going by the media.

    But i've learnt said media can be misleading when it comes to claiming 'what the people want' either in the UK or states side.

  3. #1833
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Back when the UK Conservative and Unionist Party stood for free trade and the Union (of UK), balancing the budget and strong defence etc I was a true blue Conservative - it was not so long ago even. I had no problem voting for David Cameron in 2010.
    Before i reply which PM's led this flavour of Tory party that you liked ?

  4. #1834
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    The dynamic that intrigues me is I believe every Scottish riding is now represented by a member of the SNP. I wonder what will result from that.
    Any referendum is at the PM's discretion and Boris is against it. So the SNP will continue to posture knowing full well they will not get their referendum.

  5. #1835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Any referendum is at the PM's discretion and Boris is against it. So the SNP will continue to posture knowing full well they will not get their referendum.
    Well then I guess it is time for


    High time they vacate occupied Scotland I say!

    In any case it was very satisfying to see the supposedly liberal loudmouths in the media and on Twitter having a meltdown when the results were announced. Even more satisfying to see the anti-semitic commie lunatics lose miserably.
    Last edited by Firestorm; 16 Dec 19, at 23:44.

  6. #1836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    Well then I guess it is time for


    High time they vacate occupied Scotland I say!

    In any case it was very satisfying to see the supposedly liberal loudmouths in the media and on Twitter having a meltdown when the results were announced. Even more satisfying to see the anti-semitic commie lunatics lose miserably.
    The Union Act (1701 I think) was not a matter of England 'occupying' Scotland but of England taking on Scotland's debt after the Scottish 'Darien colony' (in current day Panama) well apart leaving Scotland with heaps of debt.

  7. #1837
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

    As the Company of Scotland was backed by approximately 20% of all the money circulating in Scotland, its failure left the entire Lowlands in substantial financial ruin and was an important factor in weakening their resistance to the Act of Union (completed in 1707). The land where the Darien colony was built, in the modern province of Guna Yala, is virtually uninhabited today.
    Very good

  8. #1838
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    Ah 1707 not 1701.. I knew it was 17 0something.

  9. #1839
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    Well then I guess it is time for


    High time they vacate occupied Scotland I say!

    In any case it was very satisfying to see the supposedly liberal loudmouths in the media and on Twitter having a meltdown when the results were announced. Even more satisfying to see the anti-semitic commie lunatics lose miserably.
    You are interpreting the SNP win as an endorsement for a scottish referendum ?

    What if its just a rejection of Labour & Corbyn. Labour did lose seats in Scotland.

    I don't know as yet what mandate the scottish vote is for

    Besides the UK has been through enough headaches with the last referendum they held and the last thing they need is another one.

    The SNP has no chance of getting a scottish referendum through parliament.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Dec 19, at 21:48.

  10. #1840
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    Any Party portrays elections gains as a mandate for whatever it chooses to do. The Conservative Party claim they have a mandate to 'get Brexit done' though actually they less of the vote that than the other Parties that wanted a second referendum. The SNP choose to interpret their gains as a mandate for another referendum on Scottish independence.

    Both are hypocrites: Boris claims falsely claims a mandate for Brexit from the EU but will not allow another Scottish referendum (or a second Brexit one) while the SNP claim to love the European Union but cannot bear the British Union.

    For myself I am wondering if/when they will release the Select Committee on Muscovite interference. I fancy that will not happen until 2021.

  11. #1841
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    If push comes to shove the Scots will be given a simple choice, regular or extra crispy

    Brexit never meant the break up of the UK

    All go or none.

  12. #1842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    If push comes to shove the Scots will be given a simple choice, regular or extra crispy

    Brexit never meant the break up of the UK

    All go or none.
    It's already put a border down the Irish sea. If Brexit goes as badly as some predict, then the Scots will want out. If not, then I imagine it will all settle down.

  13. #1843
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post

    For myself, I am wondering if/when they will release the Select Committee on Muscovite interference. I fancy that will not happen until 2021.
    I believe it's been cleared for publication. Even if it contained damning evidence of interference I doubt brexiters will care. It's become a social identity issue - you cant walk people back from that.

  14. #1844
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    It's already put a border down the Irish sea. If Brexit goes as badly as some predict, then the Scots will want out. If not, then I imagine it will all settle down.
    If Brexit goes badly is there a chance remain becomes dominant and then reverses Brexit ?

    Now Scots stay.

    EU gets to gloat and any other country with similar leave ideas gets quelled.

  15. #1845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    If Brexit goes badly is there a chance remain becomes dominant and then reverses Brexit ?
    Brexit, once the notice of withdrawal has been received (March 29, 2017), is not reversible. The "opinion" of British citizens - including Scots - does not matter in that regard. The UK has legally already withdrawn from the European Union, it is currently only stalling the deadline.

    The only option for the UK to continue to be a member of the EU would be to conclude withdrawal and then rejoin (immediately or later), although that would do away with any of the optouts, rebates and other special treatment the UK has enjoyed over the last 46 years. Subject to unanimous approval by all other EU members of course. Additionally one can under current political circumstances assume that once withdrawal is concluded the EU will remove the option to withdraw, as that was only inserted into the treaties based on British insistence in the first place.

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