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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1816
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    ^mostly captured my thoughts on Labour and the second order effects

    quango - long time i've not heard this word : )

    I don't know about hung parliament being best though. I want the Tories to win and have a commanding majority.

    This will lead to more coherent policy at a time when global conditions are more uncertain.

    The problem is the Tories have been in office since 2012.

    So anti-incumbency might work against them.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Dec 19, at 18:20.

  2. #1817
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    Tories have been in power since 2010 although the first Government (Cameron/Clegg) was a Conservative/LibDem coalition.

  3. #1818
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Conservatives & lib dems won't work as a coalition this time. The libs have said no brexit. Course the way the votes come in might create such a coalition.

    Which will be a mess.

  4. #1819
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    Never going to happen: The LibDems are adamantly opposed to Brexit while today's Conservative Party is, in effect what used to be UKIP. I voted for Cameron in 2010 (and won some cheese on a bet) but could not vote for Johnson next week and have contributed to the LibDems (only 500GDP), a Party of which I am not and never have been a member. Why? Because I am basically a 'conservative' and agree and believe in free trade - which Britain has been a champion of since Adam Smith. All the Thatcher reforms were essentially a form of freeing trade within the UK from the grip of socialist dogma where nearly 2/3rds of the British economy was Government run. It is absolutely against everything any true 'free market' conservative could conceive of to restrict trade with the continent. They tried it hundreds of years ago and smugglers ran riot or some towns (such as Sandwhich) got exemptions; it failed so they legalised it and taxed the profits instead - which was far more lucrative for the treasury and the smugglers as they were not fighting each other.

    Meanwhile I got an email from a friend in the UK linking this;



    So this guy Andrew Neil is known to be a particularly abrasive interviewer and Boris the Brave is apparently 'frit' to use the Yorkshire term (for frightened) to be interviewed by him - though all the other Party Leaders have. This apparently has caused some trouble for the BBC as they had said they would not let him be interviewed by other members of their staff before he consented to the 'Leaders Interview' with Andrew Neil. However following an incident in London where some crazed jihadist stabbed a couple of people (and was after shot dead by Police) Johnson appeared for an interview with Andrew Marr last Sunday(?);



    Given his performance and waffle in this interview I can see why he is scared of being interviewed by a hard interviewer.

  5. #1820
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Yes !! the Tories got 364 out of 650. They crossed the half way mark of 326. No hung parliament. No more bloody coalitions.

    And Jeremy can get lost with 203 and his jihadi supporters. Labour's worst ever performance in 84 years !!

    The lib dems managed only 11, wow

    Few months ago rumours abounded that Boris would be the shortest serving PM the UK ever had

    Gone by November they said.

    Yeah, November 2025 maybe : D

    Name:  boris carrie.jpg
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    Looks like those offerings paid off : D

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    If the Tories' lead in the poll is repeated on Thursday in a uniform manner across the country, Mr Johnson could be heading for a comfortable majority of 52 seats – in line with the party's private projections.
    This time the Brits got their poll predictions right. Tories have a majority of 38 seats
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Dec 19, at 17:14.

  6. #1821
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    The dynamic that intrigues me is I believe every Scottish riding is now represented by a member of the SNP. I wonder what will result from that.
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  7. #1822
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Never going to happen: The LibDems are adamantly opposed to Brexit while today's Conservative Party is, in effect what used to be UKIP. I voted for Cameron in 2010 (and won some cheese on a bet) but could not vote for Johnson next week and have contributed to the LibDems (only 500GDP), a Party of which I am not and never have been a member. Why? Because I am basically a 'conservative' and agree and believe in free trade - which Britain has been a champion of since Adam Smith. All the Thatcher reforms were essentially a form of freeing trade within the UK from the grip of socialist dogma where nearly 2/3rds of the British economy was Government run. It is absolutely against everything any true 'free market' conservative could conceive of to restrict trade with the continent. They tried it hundreds of years ago and smugglers ran riot or some towns (such as Sandwhich) got exemptions; it failed so they legalised it and taxed the profits instead - which was far more lucrative for the treasury and the smugglers as they were not fighting each other.
    I've said this before, but Boris strikes me more of a liberal than right. There wasn't anything remotely approaching UKIP in his acceptance speech this summer outside 10 Downing

    Liberalism is a strong British tradition. The UK was liberal before it was democratic.

    I do wonder whether days of the liberals is drawing to a close. They've had a free run since the 80s with globalisation and there seems to be a marked push back these days to that idea.

    I still think liberal ideas are powerful. What do the left or right have over free trade & markets.

    Nothing !!

    Putin will be happy with this result i expect. Now he has his work cut out to keep Trump in office.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Dec 19, at 17:11.

  8. #1823
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    The dynamic that intrigues me is I believe every Scottish riding is now represented by a member of the SNP. I wonder what will result from that.
    A different name for the same thing (electoral district), but they don't call them ridings in the UK.
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  9. #1824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    The dynamic that intrigues me is I believe every Scottish riding is now represented by a member of the SNP. I wonder what will result from that.
    In the UK voting areas are called 'constituencies' not 'ridings' which do exist in Yorkshire (I think they have a north, south and west riding) but they are just traditional names and do not correspond to voting regions.

    The SNP did not win all the Scottish constituencies but did win 48 out of 59. They are bound to demand a second independence referendum though it is doubtful if all those who voted SNP actually want independence. One of the seats to fall in Scotland was Jo Swinson's - the LibDem Party leader. The Conservatives still retain a couple of seats.

    The trouble was I think that Brexit got mixed up with two awful choices - one an idealist commie who couldn't lead anyone out of a wet paper bag and the other a liar and basically a charlatan. The centre, that should have been strengthened as a result promised to cancel Brexit so lost the 'leave' voters who maybe might have voted LibDem if they had just promised a new referendum on the 'Boris deal'.

    Jeremy Corbyn has apparently said he will stand down when a new Labour leader is elected. The next question is whether the Labour Party have the sense to elect someone who can cut out the anti Semitic utopia dreamers and present a practical set of goals or whether it will be "Corbyn is dead. Long live Corbyn ll."

  10. #1825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I've said this before, but Boris strikes me more of a liberal than right. There wasn't anything remotely approaching UKIP in his acceptance speech this summer outside 10 Downing

    Liberalism is a strong British tradition. The UK was liberal before it was democratic.

    I do wonder whether days of the liberals is drawing to a close. They've had a free run since the 80s with globalisation and there seems to be a marked push back these days to that idea.

    I still think liberal ideas are powerful. What do the left or right have over free trade & markets.
    Boris's natural inclinations may be more 'liberal' but he hitched on board with the fanatic 'believers' and boxed himself in.

  11. #1826
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Boris's natural inclinations may be more 'liberal' but he hitched on board with the fanatic 'believers' and boxed himself in.
    How many of them in the Tory party ?

    These are normal tactics of the Tories to sideline the far right for a while now and not only in the UK.

    He's already removed 21 dissenting voices over a 24h period i heard. Winston Churchill's grandson one among them.

    He wants people around him who can help him get the job done. So we get an inkling of his management style.
    Last edited by Double Edge; Yesterday at 05:53.

  12. #1827
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Boris's natural inclinations may be more 'liberal' but he hitched on board with the fanatic 'believers' and boxed himself in.
    Having just delivered the most crushing electoral victory in three decades I doubt there is anyone who can box Boris. Inside the Tory party he is now the most powerful PM since Thatcher and once he delivers Brexit most of those who might cause trouble will be quieted. He has a majority that all but guarantees two terms and an opposition that is deeply divided and run by the same people who thought Corbyn would become PM. He will be his own man for good or ill.


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  13. #1828
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    have contributed to the LibDems (only 500GDP), a Party of which I am not and never have been a member. Why? Because I am basically a 'conservative' and agree and believe in free trade - which Britain has been a champion of since Adam Smith. All the Thatcher reforms were essentially a form of freeing trade within the UK from the grip of socialist dogma where nearly 2/3rds of the British economy was Government run. It is absolutely against everything any true 'free market' conservative could conceive of to restrict trade with the continent. They tried it hundreds of years ago and smugglers ran riot or some towns (such as Sandwhich) got exemptions; it failed so they legalised it and taxed the profits instead - which was far more lucrative for the treasury and the smugglers as they were not fighting each other.
    The question is why have the Libs lost so badly. Over half their seats have been surrendered and their leader Jo Swinson could not even get elected. If Labour did badly then the LibDems fared far worse. You did not bet on the right horse here.

    Did people reject entirely their view that Brexit must be disallowed ? they saw this as going against the people's wishes ?


    So this guy Andrew Neil is known to be a particularly abrasive interviewer and Boris the Brave is apparently 'frit' to use the Yorkshire term (for frightened) to be interviewed by him - though all the other Party Leaders have. This apparently has caused some trouble for the BBC as they had said they would not let him be interviewed by other members of their staff before he consented to the 'Leaders Interview' with Andrew Neil. However following an incident in London where some crazed jihadist stabbed a couple of people (and was after shot dead by Police) Johnson appeared for an interview with Andrew Marr last Sunday(?);

    Given his performance and waffle in this interview I can see why he is scared of being interviewed by a hard interviewer.
    He's been avoiding interviews given how badly May did at them. He'll be more confident now.

    The guy is likable no matter how much people want to bash him for his appearance or whatever.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Dec 19, at 14:31.

  14. #1829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    The question is why have the Libs lost so badly. Over half their seats have been surrendered and their leader Jo Swinson could not even get elected. If Labour did badly then the LibDems fared far worse. You did not bet on the right horse here.
    Did they? In 2017 the LibDems got 2,371,772 votes, 7.4% of the total of votes cast. Just last week they got 3,696,423, or 11.2% of the votes cast. The SNP by way of contrast got 1.2 million votes and 55 MPs.

    Nor did 'back the wrong horse' in my view. If I had been able to vote I would certainly have voted LibDem not because I am a great LibDem fan or I thought Joe Swinson was the best thing since sliced bread but because the Brexit espoused by the supposed Conservative Party will be a disaster for the UK economically, strategically - and probably split the Union , while the Islington far left socialism of Corbyn and Menshavik comrades would bankrupt the country within one Parliament. So yes I would have voted for them as that would have been the only option compatible with my reason and conscience.

    Nor do in any way consider the debate lost. Losing a battle does not usually lose a war and indeed the British have a tradition of losing the first battle.
    Last edited by snapper; Yesterday at 18:01.

  15. #1830
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    It is a shame we can not hear Tankies opinion in this thread.

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