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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1801
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    Farage has said his Brexit Party will not stand in any of the seats the Conservative Party won in 2017.

  2. #1802
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    Muscovite influence in the UK: https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...a-report-jame/ (video)

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    An interesting discussion, not a whole lot new there if you followed the now discontinued "power Vertical" podcast in years prior.

    But it leaves an open question. Whether releasing the declassified, redacted Intelligence & Security committee report will be made only after the election or not at all ?

    PM's privilege as to whether it is released at all.

    UK does not have the equivalent of a Magnitsky act yet. This means UK becomes the top destination to launder Russian oligarch money.

    Does the UK want to restrict this inflow of money and why ? Unless i see more evidence of this intent i remain sceptical. Parking ill gotten gains or harbouring fugitives from other countries has never been an issue in the UK and i'd be very surprised if attitudes have changed now.

    If it is only after the election it means the Tories are more confident of a win with Russian support and less so if things come out in the open so close to the election.

    The simpler reason here could be releasing the report so close to the election exerts an unwarranted wildcard influence in and of itself. Why throw in a joker card when you have an election to win. What purpose does that serve. This line of reasoning assumes the report will be released after the election.

    Bill Browder has some strong words to say about Putin and oligarchs. What he has to realise is every developing democracy has its robber barons. If you scoff at the idea that Russia could even be termed a democracy keep in mind guilded age America of the late nineteenth century discriminated against half its population. Women didn't have the right to vote. They only got that right in the early twenties or a couple of years after the UK who also did not allow women to vote up to that point.

    And the UK began by allowing only women of age 30 and over to vote. That age limit was lowered only a decade later.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Nov 19, at 14:56.

  4. #1804
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    The European Commission has begun proceedings for breach of treaty against the United Kingdom.

    Reason is Johnson refusing to nominate a commissioner candidate for von der Leyen citing that the UK does not do so during election times (which, like any other domestic problems, isn't relevant in any way to the committed breach). Johnson has now been given 8 weeks to nominate a candidate, if he doesn't it'll automatically go on to court.
    Common punishment under such proceedings once they go to court is a one-off lump-sum fine for the breach committed plus an ongoing fine payable until the breach is rectified, usually some six- to seven-digit figure per day.

  5. #1805
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post

    Bill Browder has some strong words to say about Putin and oligarchs. What he has to realise is every developing democracy has its robber barons. If you scoff at the idea that Russia could even be termed a democracy keep in mind guilded age America of the late nineteenth century discriminated against half its population. Women didn't have the right to vote. They only got that right in the early twenties or a couple of years after the UK who also did not allow women to vote up to that point.

    And the UK began by allowing only women of age 30 and over to vote. That age limit was lowered only a decade later.
    Are those excuses for Russia? It might be one thing if it was a new road that one was going down for the first time by anybody in the world. However, when one does have many examples to emulate and follow then I would say they already have an excellent roadmap. To me Putin and the oligarchs have far far more control over the Russian government then there ever was in the US. I would also note that those who advocated change in the US weren't subject to removal from society and disappearing forever. Without them there can be no advocating and therefore no evolution.

  6. #1806
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Are those excuses for Russia? It might be one thing if it was a new road that one was going down for the first time by anybody in the world. However, when one does have many examples to emulate and follow then I would say they already have an excellent roadmap. To me Putin and the oligarchs have far far more control over the Russian government then there ever was in the US. I would also note that those who advocated change in the US weren't subject to removal from society and disappearing forever. Without them there can be no advocating and therefore no evolution.
    Removal from society and disappearing forever is a red herring when you denied half your population the right to vote. For all intents and purposes that half of the population did not exist in the democratic process.

    Oligarchs are like the robber barons and every developing democracy has them. Do they exert an oversized influence on policy yes. Disproportionately so. But you either keep them happy or lose the money.

    Are you denying the influence of big money on your elections ? they had an influence then and sure do now. There's much more of it so the effect isn't as disproportionate but there nonetheless and there is no alternative.

    I explain this to people in my country who don't get it. If you expect me to bankroll your political campaign then i expect windfall profits. You either make legislation or policy to that affect and remove existing that gets in the way. In my country they call it crony capitalism & corruption, in the west they call it lobbying. Sounds so innocuous but its the same thing.

    Russia is on a path to no where and if this continues they will be getting their orders from Beijing. They are a has been. Putin is trying to right that in his own way. Where are those brilliant scientists working these days. Not in Russia.

    Maybe things might change post 2024 or not. A weaker Russia is a dangerous Russia and a source of instability for every one.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 16 Nov 19, at 14:40.

  7. #1807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    An interesting discussion, not a whole lot new there if you followed the now discontinued "power Vertical" podcast in years prior.
    My dear fellow the 'Power Vertical', which I have listened to for some years, podcast previously on Radio Free Europe are now on the CEPA (Center for European Policy Analysis) website and you can find the same host (Brian) though without Mark Galiotti, here; https://www.cepa.org/power-vertical

    Brian Whitmore was offered a post at CEPA and allowed to keep the 'Power Vertical' name but spend alot of time at the 'Security Forums' nowadays, most recently at the one in Warsawa.


    As to the release of the report on Muscovite interference in the Brexit vote Marina Litvenenko (the widow of the polonium poisoned Sasha/Alexander) is lodging a court case as are others I believe. I have contributed to Marina's court case financially in a small way. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ow-goes-to-law
    Last edited by snapper; 16 Nov 19, at 17:19.

  8. #1808
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    My dear fellow the 'Power Vertical', which I have listened to for some years, podcast previously on Radio Free Europe are now on the CEPA (Center for European Policy Analysis) website and you can find the same host (Brian) though without Mark Galiotti, here; https://www.cepa.org/power-vertical

    Brian Whitmore was offered a post at CEPA and allowed to keep the 'Power Vertical' name but spend alot of time at the 'Security Forums' nowadays, most recently at the one in Warsawa.


    As to the release of the report on Muscovite interference in the Brexit vote Marina Litvenenko (the widow of the polonium poisoned Sasha/Alexander) is lodging a court case as are others I believe. I have contributed to Marina's court case financially in a small way. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ow-goes-to-law
    Very good. I liked Galiotti. Wonder why they had to separate. There is another by CSIS called "Russian Roulette". These two give a good idea of developments in Russia and its near abroad.

  9. #1809
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    I did not always agree with Galiotti but his book 'The Vory' is excellent.

    We should perhaps start a thread of 'liberty supporting podcasts and information' as I have also listened to the 'Russian Roulette' one and 'Gaslit Nation' by two American Ladies, one I believe of Ukrainian descent who Sister is alleged by the GOP conspiracy theorists to helped out the 'black dossier' on Manafort from Ukraine. These Ladies are a bit left wing for my taste normally but these are not normal times and all who stand by the truth and the rule of law must stand together to weather the storm.

  10. #1810
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I did not always agree with Galiotti but his book 'The Vory' is excellent.
    Whitmore would read out the news and developments and Galiotti would then comment and add his interpretations. Debate around. I found that very helpful.

    I don't know enough about Russia to disagree with him.

    In your O'Brien podcast it was said that Russia sees the EU & NATO as aligned against them but the EU does not see it that way at all. That pov can explain Russian actions which would be puzzling if seen only from a EU pov.

    We should perhaps start a thread of 'liberty supporting podcasts and information' as I have also listened to the 'Russian Roulette' one and 'Gaslit Nation' by two American Ladies, one I believe of Ukrainian descent who Sister is alleged by the GOP conspiracy theorists to helped out the 'black dossier' on Manafort from Ukraine. These Ladies are a bit left wing for my taste normally but these are not normal times and all who stand by the truth and the rule of law must stand together to weather the storm.
    If you're tracking things truth only shows up months later in drips and drabs.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 16 Nov 19, at 20:47.

  11. #1811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    If you're tracking things truth only shows up months later in drips and drabs.
    My argument is against those who refuse to accept truth, for example Trumpkin this year still believing and trying to get Ukraine to 'investigate' how Ukraine interfered in the 2016 US election when all US Security Services pretty quickly had enough evidence to publicly state that it was the Muscovites. Or they propose "It could have been anyone". It is pretty much now proved that Muscovy shot down MH17 but they won't accept it - it could have been the Martians...

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