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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1801
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    Farage has said his Brexit Party will not stand in any of the seats the Conservative Party won in 2017.

  2. #1802
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    Muscovite influence in the UK: https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...a-report-jame/ (video)

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    An interesting discussion, not a whole lot new there if you followed the now discontinued "power Vertical" podcast in years prior.

    But it leaves an open question. Whether releasing the declassified, redacted Intelligence & Security committee report will be made only after the election or not at all ?

    PM's privilege as to whether it is released at all.

    UK does not have the equivalent of a Magnitsky act yet. This means UK becomes the top destination to launder Russian oligarch money.

    Does the UK want to restrict this inflow of money and why ? Unless i see more evidence of this intent i remain sceptical. Parking ill gotten gains or harbouring fugitives from other countries has never been an issue in the UK and i'd be very surprised if attitudes have changed now.

    If it is only after the election it means the Tories are more confident of a win with Russian support and less so if things come out in the open so close to the election.

    The simpler reason here could be releasing the report so close to the election exerts an unwarranted wildcard influence in and of itself. Why throw in a joker card when you have an election to win. What purpose does that serve. This line of reasoning assumes the report will be released after the election.

    Bill Browder has some strong words to say about Putin and oligarchs. What he has to realise is every developing democracy has its robber barons. If you scoff at the idea that Russia could even be termed a democracy keep in mind guilded age America of the late nineteenth century discriminated against half its population. Women didn't have the right to vote. They only got that right in the early twenties or a couple of years after the UK who also did not allow women to vote up to that point.

    And the UK began by allowing only women of age 30 and over to vote. That age limit was lowered only a decade later.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Nov 19, at 14:56.

  4. #1804
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    The European Commission has begun proceedings for breach of treaty against the United Kingdom.

    Reason is Johnson refusing to nominate a commissioner candidate for von der Leyen citing that the UK does not do so during election times (which, like any other domestic problems, isn't relevant in any way to the committed breach). Johnson has now been given 8 weeks to nominate a candidate, if he doesn't it'll automatically go on to court.
    Common punishment under such proceedings once they go to court is a one-off lump-sum fine for the breach committed plus an ongoing fine payable until the breach is rectified, usually some six- to seven-digit figure per day.

  5. #1805
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post

    Bill Browder has some strong words to say about Putin and oligarchs. What he has to realise is every developing democracy has its robber barons. If you scoff at the idea that Russia could even be termed a democracy keep in mind guilded age America of the late nineteenth century discriminated against half its population. Women didn't have the right to vote. They only got that right in the early twenties or a couple of years after the UK who also did not allow women to vote up to that point.

    And the UK began by allowing only women of age 30 and over to vote. That age limit was lowered only a decade later.
    Are those excuses for Russia? It might be one thing if it was a new road that one was going down for the first time by anybody in the world. However, when one does have many examples to emulate and follow then I would say they already have an excellent roadmap. To me Putin and the oligarchs have far far more control over the Russian government then there ever was in the US. I would also note that those who advocated change in the US weren't subject to removal from society and disappearing forever. Without them there can be no advocating and therefore no evolution.

  6. #1806
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Are those excuses for Russia? It might be one thing if it was a new road that one was going down for the first time by anybody in the world. However, when one does have many examples to emulate and follow then I would say they already have an excellent roadmap. To me Putin and the oligarchs have far far more control over the Russian government then there ever was in the US. I would also note that those who advocated change in the US weren't subject to removal from society and disappearing forever. Without them there can be no advocating and therefore no evolution.
    Removal from society and disappearing forever is a red herring when you denied half your population the right to vote. For all intents and purposes that half of the population did not exist in the democratic process.

    Oligarchs are like the robber barons and every developing democracy has them. Do they exert an oversized influence on policy yes. Disproportionately so. But you either keep them happy or lose the money.

    Are you denying the influence of big money on your elections ? they had an influence then and sure do now. There's much more of it so the effect isn't as disproportionate but there nonetheless and there is no alternative.

    I explain this to people in my country who don't get it. If you expect me to bankroll your political campaign then i expect windfall profits. You either make legislation or policy to that affect and remove existing that gets in the way. In my country they call it crony capitalism & corruption, in the west they call it lobbying. Sounds so innocuous but its the same thing.

    Russia is on a path to no where and if this continues they will be getting their orders from Beijing. They are a has been. Putin is trying to right that in his own way. Where are those brilliant scientists working these days. Not in Russia.

    Maybe things might change post 2024 or not. A weaker Russia is a dangerous Russia and a source of instability for every one.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 16 Nov 19, at 14:40.

  7. #1807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    An interesting discussion, not a whole lot new there if you followed the now discontinued "power Vertical" podcast in years prior.
    My dear fellow the 'Power Vertical', which I have listened to for some years, podcast previously on Radio Free Europe are now on the CEPA (Center for European Policy Analysis) website and you can find the same host (Brian) though without Mark Galiotti, here; https://www.cepa.org/power-vertical

    Brian Whitmore was offered a post at CEPA and allowed to keep the 'Power Vertical' name but spend alot of time at the 'Security Forums' nowadays, most recently at the one in Warsawa.


    As to the release of the report on Muscovite interference in the Brexit vote Marina Litvenenko (the widow of the polonium poisoned Sasha/Alexander) is lodging a court case as are others I believe. I have contributed to Marina's court case financially in a small way. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ow-goes-to-law
    Last edited by snapper; 16 Nov 19, at 17:19.

  8. #1808
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    My dear fellow the 'Power Vertical', which I have listened to for some years, podcast previously on Radio Free Europe are now on the CEPA (Center for European Policy Analysis) website and you can find the same host (Brian) though without Mark Galiotti, here; https://www.cepa.org/power-vertical

    Brian Whitmore was offered a post at CEPA and allowed to keep the 'Power Vertical' name but spend alot of time at the 'Security Forums' nowadays, most recently at the one in Warsawa.


    As to the release of the report on Muscovite interference in the Brexit vote Marina Litvenenko (the widow of the polonium poisoned Sasha/Alexander) is lodging a court case as are others I believe. I have contributed to Marina's court case financially in a small way. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ow-goes-to-law
    Very good. I liked Galiotti. Wonder why they had to separate. There is another by CSIS called "Russian Roulette". These two give a good idea of developments in Russia and its near abroad.

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    I did not always agree with Galiotti but his book 'The Vory' is excellent.

    We should perhaps start a thread of 'liberty supporting podcasts and information' as I have also listened to the 'Russian Roulette' one and 'Gaslit Nation' by two American Ladies, one I believe of Ukrainian descent who Sister is alleged by the GOP conspiracy theorists to helped out the 'black dossier' on Manafort from Ukraine. These Ladies are a bit left wing for my taste normally but these are not normal times and all who stand by the truth and the rule of law must stand together to weather the storm.

  10. #1810
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I did not always agree with Galiotti but his book 'The Vory' is excellent.
    Whitmore would read out the news and developments and Galiotti would then comment and add his interpretations. Debate around. I found that very helpful.

    I don't know enough about Russia to disagree with him.

    In your O'Brien podcast it was said that Russia sees the EU & NATO as aligned against them but the EU does not see it that way at all. That pov can explain Russian actions which would be puzzling if seen only from a EU pov.

    We should perhaps start a thread of 'liberty supporting podcasts and information' as I have also listened to the 'Russian Roulette' one and 'Gaslit Nation' by two American Ladies, one I believe of Ukrainian descent who Sister is alleged by the GOP conspiracy theorists to helped out the 'black dossier' on Manafort from Ukraine. These Ladies are a bit left wing for my taste normally but these are not normal times and all who stand by the truth and the rule of law must stand together to weather the storm.
    If you're tracking things truth only shows up months later in drips and drabs.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 16 Nov 19, at 20:47.

  11. #1811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    If you're tracking things truth only shows up months later in drips and drabs.
    My argument is against those who refuse to accept truth, for example Trumpkin this year still believing and trying to get Ukraine to 'investigate' how Ukraine interfered in the 2016 US election when all US Security Services pretty quickly had enough evidence to publicly state that it was the Muscovites. Or they propose "It could have been anyone". It is pretty much now proved that Muscovy shot down MH17 but they won't accept it - it could have been the Martians...

  12. #1812
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    My argument is against those who refuse to accept truth, for example Trumpkin this year still believing and trying to get Ukraine to 'investigate' how Ukraine interfered in the 2016 US election when all US Security Services pretty quickly had enough evidence to publicly state that it was the Muscovites. Or they propose "It could have been anyone". It is pretty much now proved that Muscovy shot down MH17 but they won't accept it - it could have been the Martians...
    IIANM Corbyn voiced doubts about Russian involvement in the Salisbury incident ?

    Now why would he say that ? because Russian money flows to Labour as well : )

    It makes no sense to support just a party when either could be in office and the desired outcomes is non-antagonistic polices towards Russia.

    Which makes what party leaders say all the more interesting whether in commission (no russian involvement in salisbury) or omission (not releasing the intel commitees report)
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Nov 19, at 19:52.

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    The Comrades of the left were never scared to make a deal with the extreme right before, I note as an example the Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact; why should they be so now? Seamas Milne, Comrade Corbyn's right hand man, attended the Valdai Discussion Group in 2014 and 'discussed' with Putin on stage "New Rules or No Rules in the Global Order". Expenses payed naturally. The illegal occupation of Crimea he calls "clearly defensive". On the Donbass war; "the crisis in Ukraine is a product of the disastrous Versailles-style break-up of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s". The Comrades are 'useful idiots' only as far as Moscow Central is concerned but cannot help but reminisce their beloved USSR utopia that murdered 50+million.

  14. #1814
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    The Comrades of the left were never scared to make a deal with the extreme right before, I note as an example the Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact; why should they be so now? Seamas Milne, Comrade Corbyn's right hand man, attended the Valdai Discussion Group in 2014 and 'discussed' with Putin on stage "New Rules or No Rules in the Global Order". Expenses payed naturally. The illegal occupation of Crimea he calls "clearly defensive". On the Donbass war; "the crisis in Ukraine is a product of the disastrous Versailles-style break-up of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s". The Comrades are 'useful idiots' only as far as Moscow Central is concerned but cannot help but reminisce their beloved USSR utopia that murdered 50+million.
    Well, i would say Labour are also hobnobbing with jihadis these days. This is why the jews & Indians end up as targets



    Punchline comes at 16:18

    The equality & HR commission, a watchdog setup by Labour is investigating the Labour Party for institutional anti-semitism

    And these idiots want to preach and rake up HR violations in countries out of their jurisdiction !!

    The kind of crap said at the labour conference on India was stunning because of zero fact checking. They then followed it up in their manifesto. How can a ruling party make policy with no basis !!!

    British Indians are going to have to jump ship, this party is not the party they thought it was

    If Labour wins on Dec 12 and they don't change their stand i see UK - India relations taking a dip

    Screw this 'Asian' term, British Indians are not taking the rap when British Paks misbehave
    Last edited by Double Edge; 28 Nov 19, at 02:39.

  15. #1815
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    Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition under Comrade Corbyn are by all accounts spiteful, petty and vicious - hence the number of MPs of that have fled the Party. It is more a Corbyn fan club than a Political Party. From what I have read (particularly the Institute of Fiscal Studies [IFS]) all their promises - fibre optic broadband free for everyone, renationalisation of x,y and z, planting 2 billion trees by 2040 (which by some accounts means planting 2m trees per day) are just unaffordable. Either taxes would have to rise substantially or the UK would end up in the loving hands of the IMF if these 'commitments' were fulfilled.

    According to the IFS the Tory spending promises are not much better than the Labour Corbyn Fan Clubs. They say the LibDems are the most realistic economic plans - but then the LibDems plan to revoke Article 50 so cancelling Brexit altogether, which according to the Governments own statistics would reduce UK GDP between 4 and 6%.

    A few of the things I have picked up on in the campaigns is that Boris is accused 'running shy' from debating. So there was one debate between him and Corbyn but no LibDem leader or any others. During this 'debate' (though it cannot really be called such - it was repetition of rehearsed lines) some twitter account related to the Conservative Campaign renamed itself 'FactCheckUK' or something of that nature which was evidently entirely false.

    Apparently last night there was a 'Leaders Climate Change Debate' which the Prime Minister also deigned to attend. Instead in a very obvious stunt Michael Gove (another Tory Minister) turned up, with his own film crew apparently to record the 'unfairness', who demanded to represent the Tories but was told it was a 'leaders only debate' as he presumably knew. In place of the Blustering Blonde (and Farage, who also failed to show up) they apparently had some image of something melting in their places. The Tories are now complaining to OFCOM, the independent TV oversight quango and threatening a review of the TV Channel's license and terms etc...

    It is difficult to know what the mood is when not in the UK; most my oldest friends are idiots and Unicorn believers while my professional friends are considering voting tactically to stop the Blonde Schoolchild. It seems pretty clear even from afar that Farage has become almost irrelevant - his ground taken from under him by the Tories. According to some press reports he has also fallen out with Aron Banks - his main financial conduit.

    I think the best the best that can hoped for is a hung Parliament - that people vote tactically and alot of young people vote - that Corbyn is deposed from the fan club and that Labour under a new leader and the LibDems have sufficient MPs to maintain a minority Labour Government that can push through a second referendum.

    The opinion polls show a likely Conservative majority of around 60 at present and if that is what transpires the Fan Club that the Labour Party has become will be the most responsible culprit. I never believed I would lament the utter uselessness of the Labour Party but they still have sensible MPs that could lead from the centre but are not a viable Government under 'Saint Jeremy' (though I thought they were all atheists).

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