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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1786
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    I have just heard that in this highly unusual Saturday sitting in the House of Commons the 'Letwin Amendment' has been passed.

    So what is the 'Letwin Amendment'? Well Boris Johnson announced sometime this week just passed that he had agreed a 'great new Brexit deal'. Strikes me that for all egotists the prefix of 'great', 'wonderful', 'beautiful' or some variation of the superlative must be attached to anything they touch; it can never be just a 'good deal'. Anyway by this superlatively excellent new deal - touched by Boris himself - Northern Ireland would 'technically' remain within the UK customs union but no border checks would be carried on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland - rather the actual customs duties and the tariffs on imports between the two would only occur between the UK mainland and Northern Ireland - so effectively in the Irish Sea. The BBC explanation of this sham deal is here; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50083026 I have not read the full text yet but from the BBC overview it looks like an invitation to smugglers to me.

    Naturally this 'great new deal' did not go down overly well with the Democratic Unionist Party in Northern Ireland, the Party who previously were propping up the Conservative Government in Parliament - until they threw out 21 of their own MPs - and for who's support Theresa May payed £1bn in subsidies in Northern Ireland - expensive for 10 votes one would think. They complained they would de facto not be like the rest of the UK so would be 'second rate UK citizens'. The current imbecile in the Foreign Office, Dominic Raab(id), then apparently attempted to assuage these Ulster Unionist fears by telling them they would get the 'best of both worlds'. Oh dear... Almost Mulvaney level foot in mouth job since clearly if the Northern Irish are truly 'getting the best of both worlds' the rest of the UK - including the Scots and Welsh are missing out of the supposed benefits enjoyed by the Northern Irish. I always thought Dominic Raab was an immense p*llock but to have someone of this profound stupidity at the Foreign Office representing the country abroad is dangerous.

    So this 'great new deal' then went to Europe along with Boris to get the formal 'ok' which it duly received. Meanwhile back in Parliament, I believe on Thursday, the Honourable Member for the Edwardian Age, Jacob Rees - Mogg, lured away once more from his country estate in Somerset, announced that the House would sit on Saturday (today) and be presented with an option to vote the 'great new deal' or else no deal. Another 'oh dear' moment ensued as for all their bravado to make such a demand everyone knows they lack a majority and this position caved in almost immediately when MPs voted that Amendments to this ultimatum could also be put to the vote. Enter the 'Letwin Amendendment' which means "approval of the deal, until the legislation to enact it was safely passed - a move that would automatically trigger the "Benn Act" and force the prime minister to request a further postponement of Brexit until 31 January. " (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...ments-50098128)

    So there we are... an extension must now by law be sought today. Boris apparently says he will submit his 'deal' to Parliament again next week! These guys are mashochists... they have not won a single vote since Boris was elected but want more? Moreover Boris apparently says he will not ask for an extension which if he truly does not could land him in prison. Nor do I believe he can submit the same deal unaltered to a second vote next week as the Speaker previously ruled regarding Theresa May's attempt to do the same - it must be 'materially different'.

  2. #1787
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    So it is looking increasingly unlikely that the UK will leave Oct end deal or no deal ?

  3. #1788
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    Well by law, the 'Benn Act', Boris must by midnight (UK time) tonight send a letter asking for an extension. If he does not he is likely to end in prison by the end of next week as the legal team on the other side, which has won every action brought so far, are clearly top notch and I understand ready to pounce on the slightest further divergence. That could be quite fun.

    Alternatively he could try putting his deal to the House again on Monday - which is what they have so far said they will do if I understand things right. However this would run foul of the same motion twice in the same sitting of Parliament ruling as previously with Theresa May's deal. It has to be 'substantively different' so putting the same motion again cannot be done (I think). If the 'Government' somehow manages to get past the Speakers ruling in the May deal case (it withdrew the proposal to vote on the deal earlier today due to the amendment being passed so may try to claim it was never put to Parliament for example - a very thin interpretation as it was evidently on the Order Paper) then it is unlikely that an approval of this new deal would gained - but it might. That is their hope. I read the majority for the amendment was 16; so a few votes by pressure or bribes or whatever might get them over the line.

    Another thing that is possible is that the 'Government' is denied it's ability to bring a vote on the 'Boris deal' on Monday altogether as Monday and Tuesday were apparently set for debate on the Queens Speech but the Honourable Member for the Edwardian Age apparently announced this wrongly; as a Point of Order, which does not permit of questions, rather an Emergency Statement, which does allow questions to be asked. This by some accounts is wrong proceedure as it denies MPs to ask questions.

    So hmmm I think it is closer to a second vote more than anything but certainly the legal position is clear and the PM trapped.

  4. #1789
    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    So it is looking increasingly unlikely that the UK will leave Oct end deal or no deal ?


    I bloody well hope not. This shit is getting silly. The unwashed masses were out today blocking traffic demanding a 'peoples vote' just like the one we already had 3 years ago, the one where a majority voted to tell the EU to piss off. Muppets the lot of em.

  5. #1790
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    Another strange thing that made it to my ears - or attention at least (a text) was Priti Patel's (the current Home Secretary) 'expenses claim'; I have since had it confirmed it is correct but she applied for 'expenses' of £152,672.15, more than the PM's salary in itself! You want to know where your money is going - as the Lady in favour of the return of the death sentence.

  6. #1791
    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    You dont mention what the money was spent on. No big deal through. I am sure if rules were broken it will all eventually come out.


    the return of the death sentence.

    Not a bad idea given the amount of criminal scum I see on a nightly basis in Central London. Deporting foreign criminals works for me too. I bet we could make these things happen if not under that EU human rights bollocks though the subject probably deserves its own thread.

  7. #1792
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedicabby View Post
    I bloody well hope not. This shit is getting silly. The unwashed masses were out today blocking traffic demanding a 'peoples vote' just like the one we already had 3 years ago, the one where a majority voted to tell the EU to piss off. Muppets the lot of em.
    Well, that is what i figure would happen over the last page with this legal challenge business but i've got some stiff push back else where.

    As in don't say that, you're wrong, we're going, going, gone.

    We will know soon.

  8. #1793
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Another strange thing that made it to my ears - or attention at least (a text) was Priti Patel's (the current Home Secretary) 'expenses claim'; I have since had it confirmed it is correct but she applied for 'expenses' of £152,672.15, more than the PM's salary in itself! You want to know where your money is going - as the Lady in favour of the return of the death sentence.
    If she could do a better job ensuring the Indian HC does not get attacked a third time in the forthcoming protest that would be just fine.

    Thanks

    A Pak mayor, an Indian home minster.

    Clearly the latter is not sticking to her end of the bargain.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Oct 19, at 06:18.

  9. #1794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedicabby View Post
    Not a bad idea given the amount of criminal scum I see on a nightly basis in Central London.
    Way to join your new North Korean buddies not just by economic standing in the world, but also by sociolegal context.

  10. #1795
    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Way to join your new North Korean buddies not just by economic standing in the world, but also by sociolegal context.
    Name:  2fb1f0ff1589fb03ffa4814f3aef0929.jpg
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  11. #1796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedicabby View Post
    Not a bad idea given the amount of criminal scum I see on a nightly basis in Central London. Deporting foreign criminals works for me too. I bet we could make these things happen if not under that EU human rights bollocks
    Yes, I guess so.
    The best thing to do is to have a referendum about that once UK has left the EU.

  12. #1797
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Way to join your new North Korean buddies not just by economic standing in the world, but also by sociolegal context.
    By that measure the US is already in the same sociolegal context as North Korea, since they already have capital punishment in several states.

  13. #1798
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    Yes, they are.

  14. #1799
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    So the UK is headed for another General Election on December 12... Parliament will be 'dissolved' today (different from prorogued in that committees etc can continue and bills already introduced can be carried over).

    The Intelligence Select Committee, a committee of MPs that oversee intelligence matters, have [finally] written a report on Muscovite interference in the Brexit referendum and the UK electoral process in general. This report has gone through the arcane process of various reviews and can now be released to the public. Indeed one might think the release of such a report before a new election may point areas that need strengthening and better alert unwary voters of Muscovite disinformation but it appears that No 10 is blocking the release of this report until after the election:


    A report on alleged Russian interference in UK democracy will not be published until after the election.

    It has gone through the standard security clearance process, but sources say No 10 is stalling on releasing it.

    Ex-terrorism watchdog Lord Anderson said any further delay would "invite suspicion" of the government's motives in the run-up to next month's election.

    Ministers said the report would be published "in due course" in line with procedures for "sensitive" information.

    The report examines Russian activity including allegations of espionage, subversion and interference in elections.

    The BBC's Mark Urban said the delay would increase concerns the report would be "buried".

    The report, written by Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee, was finalised in March and referred to No 10 on 17 October.

    However, approval for its publication has yet to be given and this now looks highly unlikely before Parliament is dissolved on Tuesday.

    The chairman of the committee, Dominic Grieve, says there is no legitimate reason for delaying it and that voters have a right to see its conclusions before they go to the polls on 12 December.

    "We continue to be very disappointed by the failure of the government to publish this report and to provide any explanation as to why it should not be published. Explanations currently advanced that the timing are too short are entirely disingenuous and grossly misleading," he told the BBC.

    The report includes evidence from UK intelligence services such as GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 concerning covert Russian attempts to influence the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum and 2017 general election.

    Several MPs and peers believe No 10 is sitting on the report for political reasons ahead of the election.

    Raising the issue in the Lords, Lord Anderson, the former reviewer of anti-terrorism legislation, said concerns over security could not be used as an excuse for non-publication as all the necessary redactions had taken place.

    "This unjustified delay undermines the ISC, it invites suspicion of the government and its motives. Will the minister urge No 10 to think again?"

    'Public interest'
    The former head of the Foreign Office, Lord Ricketts, said claims that the government needed time to respond was a red herring given that it had 60 days in which to do so under existing conventions.

    He said there was a "clear public interest" for publication "in the national security implications of Russia's adversarial conduct".

    The BBC understands that, if previous practice was followed, the report will have been vetted by the intelligence agencies before being referred to Downing Street.

    People familiar with the committee's workings say 10 days should have been adequate for it to be "cleared".

    Mr Grieve said the report was highly relevant given the scale of Russian interference in elections in other countries, notably the 2016 US Presidential election.

    But Earl Howe said the established protocols had to be followed and there was no case for "accelerating" the report's release.

    "The length of time the government has had this report is not at all unusual," he told the Lords. "The prime minister is entitled to take his view on what the report contains."

    But he added: "Having said all that, I do realize that the subject of this report is a matter of particular public interest. And I have no doubt that level Lords comments will not be lost on those in Number 10."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50294569


    So this all goes back to an SVR guy called Sergey Nalobin whos work in the UK is partly discussed here; https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

  15. #1800
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    I have often wondered why there was no mention of Russian interference in the UK.

    What made it stranger still is this continued despite the Salisbury incident and subsequent UK reprisals

    When i've asked this question before i was told there was none and if any then it was insignificant.

    Course i was assuming there might have been some say with the Brexit referendum.

    Nope. Nothing. All in my mind.

    I cannot be sure but it would appear such reportage might have been discouraged given the govt's present stance. This is a questionable assertion given how brazen the UK press can be. They aren't going to be told not to say anything.

    So it is the intel agencies that might have been told to go slow. If they don't say anything then there is nothing to report.

    Several MPs and peers believe No 10 is sitting on the report for political reasons ahead of the election.
    Oh! and what could those reasons be. Anything that could make the govt look bad.

    Russian funding for instance. Sure there is a lot of Russian money flowing to the UK.

    Why should that be a problem. It's no different to lobbying by and to other interested parties.

    If the Tories are getting Russian money then Labour sure as hell is getting Arab money.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Nov 19, at 14:15.

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