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Thread: The battle of Brexit!

  1. #1696
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    Well he allowed three votes on Theresa May's leave deal that eight of the current British cabinet members (including Boris) voted against. Why weren't they expelled from the Party? The deepseated resentment of the 'one nation' Tories over this hypocrisy are likely fuel further fires in the Party which has now more or less become UKIP+.

    Today Boris's Brother Jo Johnson, a Minister, quit the Parliamentary Party.

    I was busy all day yesterday but it appears that the stop no deal Brexit Bill successfully passed through the House of Commons and is now being debated in the senior House of Lords (which often speaks more sense). The Conservatives in the Lords, who are in a minority against the Labour and LibDems, apparently tabled over 100 amendments to waste the time out so their Lordships planned on sitting 24/7 through to Friday to get the no deal Brexit Bill passed but apparently the pro no deal Brexit Opposition in the Lords folded sometime this morning and did a deal that would allow the Bill to pass through the Lords by Friday 5pm UK time. It will them return to the House of Commons on Monday and following a final vote there should be sent for the Royal Assent by Her Majesty. There have been rumours that the current Government will not submit such a Bill for the Royal Assent which in effect would prevent it becoming a law. In such a case a 'Humble Submission' is apparently planned. This is in effect an appeal to the Queen to have the Bill sent for so she can give her assent as it is the will of her sitting Parliament.

    Following the passing of the Bill in the HoC Johnson naturally tabled his motion for a General Election which the Government won but not with a sufficient number of votes to win the calling of an election - as I predicted because they needed 2/3rds of MPs to back it. The MPs who oppose a no deal Brexit and who clearly now have a majority in the Common and Lords do not trust the Johnson Government one inch and until the block no deal Bill becomes law and an extension is agreed will not permit an election.

    It also transpires that contrary to Boris's 'negotiations are going well' nothing new has been proposed by the UK regarding the Northern Ireland 'backstop' that Boris says must go. Apparently also Dominic Cummings, who it seems was behind the firing of the 21 rebel Tory MPs, is not a member of the Conservative Party himself. As a former member of the Party I find this exceedingly improper and as I said among natural 'one nation' conservatives, such as myself, a medium term attempt to take back the Party and rid it of right wing extremists must be expected.

  2. #1697
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    Sir Nicholas Soames, the Grandson of Winston Churchill, during the debate on Tuesday;


  3. #1698
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    But for your information I wasn't always a fisherman, I was a proud member of HM Forces and have served in more theatres than you
    Well, what are you doing with a "Patron" label then. Tell the mods and they will give you a "Military Professional" label

  4. #1699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Well, what are you doing with a "Patron" label then. Tell the mods and they will give you a "Military Professional" label
    Lol, I'm a civie now, Its good enough for me

  5. #1700
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    Lol, I'm a civie now, Its good enough for me
    Tell us more, what service were you in.

    The label is a bragging rights thing here. Don't have to be active. Service is service. Not forgotten.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Sep 19, at 21:14.

  6. #1701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Tell us more, what service were you in.

    The label is a bragging rights thing here. Don't have to be active. Service is service. Not forgotten.
    Scots guards 81 - 04, So Yeh N.I, Malvinas, Iraq, Afghan x2, Angola, Columbia also plus other bits to beef numbers up. Alot of contracting in N.Africa and the middle east. Beats havin a day job. The fishing is just to keep busy and active, plus the money comes in useful depending on the catch.

  7. #1702
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    So the surrender bill got passed by both houses. There is no way to leave with a 'No deal'. But its still not clear how things go

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  8. #1703
    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    This is such a farce. The people voted to leave and that's that. Out. It would be nice to think no extension would be given but the UK is a bit of a cash cow so that ain't likely. Perhaps a GE will get called and Bojo wins and sends Magic Grandpa s commie pinko arse packin. What a fookin mess.

  9. #1704
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    Exactly why nobody trusts the Establishment, The only Coup is the Remain camps continual blocking of anything that resembles the UK leaving the EU.

  10. #1705
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    There is no way to leave with a 'No deal'.
    The graph shows the way to "no deal". If the EU does not unanimously (!) vote in favour of extending the current transitional period it's a no deal out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedicabby View Post
    It would be nice to think no extension would be given but the UK is a bit of a cash cow so that ain't likely.
    The financial damage that the UK has caused over the last three years alone easily outweighs any surplus the EU might ever have gotten out of British contributions.

  11. #1706
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    The graph shows the way to "no deal". If the EU does not unanimously (!) vote in favour of extending the current transitional period it's a no deal out.
    That's a lot of cats to corral , hmmm

    Every time i get lost in this discussion i want to fall back to the Alamo position

    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    I guess if another referendum is dead, then the remainers in parliament will probably hold their noses and vote for Mays deal.

    It's not great, but at least it will prevent a border in Ireland.

    There will then be two years of transition, (possible to extend) to negotiate our way back into the single market and Remain can live to fight another day.

    It's got to be about damage limitation now and preventing a no deal exit.
    Blocked the 'no deal' exit now.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Sep 19, at 08:45.

  12. #1707
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedicabby View Post
    This is such a farce. The people voted to leave and that's that. Out.
    No, it isn't. The vote was advisory, not binding on the Parliament - the courts have made that plain. Parliament is the means by which 'the people' actually get policy implemented. 'The people' had a second and more important vote - the election that followed the referendum. That body has to decide the specifics of the process and no amount of shallow populism from people like Johnson changes that. If the electorate had wanted a 'no deal' majority they could have elected one. They did not.

    The Brexiteers claim they want to take back power from Brussels and restore the full sovereignty of Parliament....then they throw a giant tantrum when Parliament actually asserts its authority to manage this process. This is the mess they made, and in typical fashion they refuse to take any responsibility for it. Responsibility is always for other people to take. That is why people with a history of voting against their own party think it is now OK to expel others for doing the same - taking responsibility is always for other people.

    At this point almost anything could theoretically happen, including a Corbyn led coalition with the SNP & LibDems that scraps Brexit in favour of another 'yes/no' vote. My bet is that Brexit still happens under some sort of terms, Johnson & the Brexiteers blame everyone but themselves for any problems, and British politics spends a few more years as a fetid swamp populated by mediocrities.

    Oh, and the same people who have been screeching about their 'freedom' from Brussels will screech just as loudly that the Scots should under no circumstances be allowed to leave the UK. 'Freedom' is only for them, not others. This is about populist tribalism, not democracy or principle or anything more high minded.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  13. #1708
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    That's a lot of cats to corral , hmmm
    It's not that hard to achieve. However, of course with each round those representing the EU27 get a bit more sceptical and possibly fed up.

    This next round Donald Tusk will still be in office as President of the European Council. He's moderately pro-British - even if not perceived as such in Brexiteer Britain - and in past rounds has always been about granting extensions with leeway, considerably beyond what European leaders would then pass after discussion. On December 1st he'll be replaced by Charles Michel. Who, on the topic of Brexit, is all about "containing damage", and who in past rounds has sided with Macron in curtailing any sort of extension.

  14. #1709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    No, it isn't. The vote was advisory, not binding on the Parliament
    True, But is it wise to ignore it?


    'The people' had a second and more important vote - the election that followed the referendum. That body has to decide the specifics of the process and no amount of shallow populism from people like Johnson changes that. If the electorate had wanted a 'no deal' majority they could have elected one. They did not.
    Could you clarify your point there, Because the only choice I can see was a remainer Tory , Lab or LIB candidate in 2017. My point is most people couldn't give a crap about a deal or no deal they voted leave. Do a deal afterwards if the other side are prepared to be reasonable. But how the hell thats possible while still in the club and to not have the proverbial taken out of the UK is the issue and continues to be.

    The Brexiteers claim they want to take back power from Brussels and restore the full sovereignty of Parliament....then they throw a giant tantrum when Parliament actually asserts its authority to manage this process. This is the mess they made, and in typical fashion they refuse to take any responsibility for it
    I think you'll find that cameron organised the referendum, actually said he would implement Article 50 the day after the result was confirmed. Then proceeded to hand over the reigns of power to Theresa. Who then took it upon herself to hand the full deck of cards over to the EU who gleefully came up with this backstop nonsense, knowing full well the British Parliament could not agree to it

    Responsibility is always for other people to take.
    Since when?

    That is why people with a history of voting against their own party think it is now OK to expel others for doing the same - taking responsibility is always for other people.
    I seem to remember John Major withdrawing the whip over the Maastricht treaty, 10 MP's I think it was. After which he undemocratically started the UK on the path to closer integration with the EU without consulting the population or explaining his actions.

    At this point almost anything could theoretically happen, including a Corbyn led coalition with the SNP & LibDems that scraps Brexit in favour of another 'yes/no' vote. My bet is that Brexit still happens under some sort of terms, Johnson & the Brexiteers blame everyone but themselves for any problems, and British politics spends a few more years as a fetid swamp populated by mediocrities.
    Just leave with no deal. Short term pain for long term gain!

    Oh, and the same people who have been screeching about their 'freedom' from Brussels will screech just as loudly that the Scots should under no circumstances be allowed to leave the UK. 'Freedom' is only for them, not others. This is about populist tribalism, not democracy or principle or anything more high minded
    Thats incorrect. The tide of nationalism in England you refer to has actually had the opposite effect.
    Last edited by Freyr; 08 Sep 19, at 08:46.

  15. #1710
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    True, But is it wise to ignore it?
    No, so rather than think the system is going to work against you. Cynical.

    It's better you are left with the impression you had a fair shot with the system doing exactly that.

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